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[10db]

hi

long time lurker, first time caller

this is for terry manning

playing all over the radio down here in australia is 'lonely w/ you' by red phoenix.  i just found out that u did this record, and i have some queries.  first, great production!  but i have soem engineering questions:

this song is blasting out of the speakers on the radios here. and i wonder how you recorded this.  did you record in australia?  what studio?  was it analog? sound like it.

mixed in box or on desk?  2 tape or digitital?  who mastered it?  do u know if it was analog mastered?  it doesn't sound smashed.

are the drums real?  sounds like it.  would you care to talk any about the mics, drum kit, placement, room?  these drums rock.

the singer (doc) is well known and famous here, but has never sounded better.  what mic-pre-compresser-eq did u use?

another song by same group they played had strings...are they real?  sounds like it.  if so, where did u record them? australia?  abbey road?

anything else about the session i would like 2 know, if you would.  docs old group was my fave b4 they split.

thanks

joe

[Tim Halligan]

10,
Fairly sure it was recorded at Compass Point, because I caught a radio interview with Doc and he was mentioning the Carribean.

I know, I know...what the hell was I doing listening to commercial FM in this country...

Awaiting Mr Manning...


Cheers,
Tim

[compasspnt]

Well, I almost stopped this thread lest it appear akin to promotion, but there are some valid engineering questions, so I will answer as briefly as possible.  Much of the technical was actually discussed on my Guest Forum, but without naming the group, as that is what I was working on at the time.  Check that out if you dare.

The basic tracks were done in Sydney, at Trackdown on the Fox lot.  Because it is an all digital studio (not a tape machine in sight!) it was tracked on Protools.  Their console is a Yamaha DM2000, so for pre's I used a Raindirk 32 ch set (successor to Helios).  The studio room is HUGE (can't type it big enough to convey the enormity), not intended as a rock room, but as an orchestral/soundstage room.  But we sectioned off a drum area with a hired "circus" tent. (Will find pic to post.)  I won't get into specific drum/instrument mics now, though.

Vocals and instrument overdubs were at Compass Point here in Nassau.  Many different mics were used on Ld Voc, including U48, R

[10db]

thnx terry!

would luv 2 c that pix of sydney studio

was bass di or amp or both?  what mic?

joe

[compasspnt]

Thank you.  I will find the photo and post it as soon as I have time.

Tha bass was all amp, no DI.  The amp was an Ashdown.  Mic was R

[mex]

hi terry,
first of all, i have been a long time admirer of your work. your career has been nothing short of outstanding. i have been looking into this forum for some time and have been able to gleem some rather useful information. but the reason i am posting is because i am rather troubled by one particular aspect of your recording with "red pheonix".
i have had the record for about a month now as a very close friend who produces and writes with me did all the bass tracks on the record and let me have a sneak preview to hear what i had been anxiously waiting for for quite some time. it really isn't my style of music that i write and am into, but i appreciate ALL music.
every aspect of the record is superb, the bass and guitars are glorious, and docs voice, well you really did the job of a sorceror to pull that off! and also, thank you for not smashing the levels in mastering. it is so welcoming to hear!!! but my delima lies in the sound of the snare. it sounds so overcompressed. and it seems that way in most tracks. the one track where i found that it sounded right was "big star now", which is a lovely track. great groove and riff...
i never really thought much about posting before, but it leaves me not trusting my ears. i just feel something isn't quite right and i can't let it go. heavens knows i could be wrong, and most likely are, but i have played that album loads in my studio and on other systems, and i just don't know. could you tell me what you did, what was your chain. i do realize trackdown is not ideal for rock drums, and yes, the room is massive, and the less than analogue chain isn't your preffered method of attack.
please understand that your work is an incredible inspiration to me, and the fact that you are here helping others tells me that you are a class act, so please don't think that i am trying to rubbish anything that you have done. i just need to find out why you went with those results, how you achieved them, and what was it that made you feel that this was the right sound and vibe for the tracks. (only the snare, the rest of the kit is as superb as the rest of the tracks).
regards
mex

[compasspnt]

Trackdown Studio Sydney
View of half of the room.
Drums were in the tent behind horse.

[maxim]

a pistol isn't good enough for you to terrorise the drummer, you need to use a cannon?!

you're scarier than phil spector

[compasspnt]

You got it, pal!  Did you hear about the drummer who...

[compasspnt]

mex wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 03:11

...the reason i am posting is because i am rather troubled by one particular aspect of your recording with "red pheonix"... ...my dilemma lies in the sound of the snare. it sounds so overcompressed... ...the one track where i found that it sounded right was "big star now"..could you tell me what you did, what was your chain... mex

Aha, controversy!  My job is done!

Seriously, thanks for your comments, Mex.

Never before in many years of recording would I talk about the sounds, the chain, how they were recorded, and most importantly, WHY they are as they are.  It always seemed to be proprietary information.  Also I believed it better to be silent and have people wonder if you were a fool, rather than to speak and leave no doubt...However, this Forum has somehow changed a lot of that, I think for many of us.

I am still somewhat hesitant to give all away, but some answers come to mind.  My approach on this album, was to try to reach several levels at once.  I wanted a guitar rock record for sure, but I also wanted one which had certain electronics, orchestration, layering of sounds, and other divergences from R&R per se.  I also made a conscious effort to "pay tribute" to several influences.  There are many Beatle references, and also Zeppelin, ELO, ac/dc, Big Band, Stax, etc., etc., etc.  Different instruments/vocals pay the tributes in different places of course.  But the snare was a conscious effort to recall the mid 80's sound which I used to use on ZZ Top, and was also somewhat similar to Mutt's Def Lepard snare of the time.  I actually pulled out of semi-retirement my AMS RMX-16 reverb, and used the old preset which I used back then.  The snare sound/EQ/comp/verb varies on each track to fit my intended goal, so this is somewhat generalised.  However, interestingly enough, "Big Star Now" was more of an R&B sound than the others, so I used less of that sound in that one song.  ("What sharp ears you have, my dear.")

Also, I am certain that the version you must be hearing is not mastered using a final limiter plugin which I am Beta testing at the moment, but which will be used for the final mastering.  This will give me a little more control than I previously had to fit the snare into the track a bit more...something I had been wanting to do on some of the songs.

Thanks for the interest, and the comments!

[mex]

terry,
thanks for taking the time to reply, and some of your thoughts behind your decisions. i really wish i could have pulled myself away during your time here so i could have sat in for a spell to watch you work, no doubt i could have learned a substantial amount in many different categories as well as sound...
i can't wait to hear the completed version with your final mastered approach, but i will reiterate again, thank you for not smashing the crap out of it!!! if i like a song i do what we used to always do...turn it up!

[10db]

hey mex,

unfair you get to have the whole next album!  i've only heard the 4 songs from the 1st EP.  when will we all get 2 hear it?

i will disagre with you about the drums,tho.  i think they are all cool.  in fact the drums on 'tough love'  are maybe the best rock drum sounds i've ever liked!

terry,

how did you get those hats and cymbals so smooth, while the bass drum so fat and punchy, and at same time the snare so dynamic?  care 2 talk any more about mics?

[10db]

Hey tim and mex and all aussies

found a radio interview with DOC archived on the net

http://rockandrollgeek.podshow.com/?p=21

a great listen, and they play a couple of the red phoenix songs