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Author Topic: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer  (Read 15779 times)

Ben Hibbs

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2005, 07:41:28 am »

Wow...
Thanks for all that info...
As someone who was brought up on CD's and only now getting into vinyl...and recording...wow...
I will probably never have the experience of cutting records...unfortunately... Crying or Very Sad
But, at least the internet allows me to read about these things...

Thank you for making my day!

On another note, is this out in Australia?

Riviting stuff...Bookmark for sure!
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Bob Boyd

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2005, 08:41:26 pm »

Took a few minutes yesterday and directly compared the CD through my Weiss DAC1 to the vinyl.  All I can say is the CD is really good but I'm so glad I bought the records!  Awesome.

Steve, this has got me wondering since I bought the "regular" CD - do you know if the Dual Disc is the same version that was SRC'd down for the CD or would it be the same 96/24 master you transferred?
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Bob Boyd
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Greg Reierson

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2005, 11:19:04 am »

dcollins wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 12:29

Ronny wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 10:09


Seems to me that a tracking arm like a cd player would eliminate the stylus angle problem, I'm wondering why they haven't designed turntables with a cross member tone arm that remains perpendicular to the grooves, rather than one that arcs across the surface. Maybe they have, not sure, but wouldn't it be a better design?




You're a day late and a Euro short!  Google "linear tracking."

It's the groove velocity that gets you, though.....

DC



Not to mention laquer isn't cut that way....


GR
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TotalSonic

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2005, 11:23:46 am »

GR wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 16:19

dcollins wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 12:29

Ronny wrote on Sat, 25 June 2005 10:09


Seems to me that a tracking arm like a cd player would eliminate the stylus angle problem, I'm wondering why they haven't designed turntables with a cross member tone arm that remains perpendicular to the grooves, rather than one that arcs across the surface. Maybe they have, not sure, but wouldn't it be a better design?




You're a day late and a Euro short!  Google "linear tracking."

It's the groove velocity that gets you, though.....

DC



Not to mention laquer isn't cut that way....


GR



ummm.... might be misunderstanding your post - but actually in essence a cutting head on a modern lathe is "linear tracking" in that it is kept perpendicular to the center point at all times and moves in & out on a fixed straight bar.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  

Greg Reierson

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2005, 11:38:41 am »

Quote:

ummm.... might be misunderstanding your post - but actually in essence a cutting head on a modern lathe is "linear tracking" in that it is kept perpendicular to the center point at all times and moves in & out on a fixed straight bar.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
 


How come nobody tells me these things.....

So doesn't that create a comptability problem between moder vs. legacy vinyl and liner vs. angular tracking?


GR
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TotalSonic

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2005, 11:43:39 am »

GR wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 16:38

ummm.... might be misunderstanding your post - but actually in essence a cutting head on a modern lathe is "linear tracking" in that it is kept perpendicular to the center point at all times and moves in & out on a fixed straight bar.

Best regards,
Steve Berson



How come nobody tells me these things.....

So doesn't that create a comptability problem between moder vs. legacy vinyl and liner vs. angular tracking?


GR



Legacy lathe meaning wax cylinder??  Sorry if I confused you with my wording in my post with the use "modern" - I'm not actually aware of a lathe with a cutting head that is mounted in the same way as a standard tone arm.  Wouldn't surprise me if there was a design for one somewhere in the depths of the patent office though.

Really the only compatibility problems that I am aware of in vinyl playback are the various eq curves used on 78's before the RIAA standard was introduced.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Chris Cavell

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2005, 12:04:22 pm »

Quote:

So doesn't that create a comptability problem between moder vs. legacy vinyl and liner vs. angular tracking?


I have a feeling that the affect of the variation in angle of the stylus (my guess is somewhere in the range of +/- 9.5 degrees from perpindicular for most consumer players on the average LP, mine is a bit different in that it is from 0 to 19 degrees due to an angle placed in the tonearm that makes the stylus perpindicular at the outer edge of a 12") is probably negligable compared to the affects on the linear velocity at a given point on the radius of the disc...but I could be wrong.

TS,

Wanted to say thanks.  It's been an interesting read for someone who has never been involved (and probably never will be) in the vinyl cutting side of this business.  Congrats on a job well done and a fine product.

Cheers,
Chris
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dcollins

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2005, 03:06:55 pm »

TotalSonic wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 08:43

Wouldn't surprise me if there was a design for one somewhere in the depths of the patent office though.



Unless it's an "audiophile" design, it's all linear-tracking, nowadays!

Quote:


Really the only compatibility problems that I am aware of in vinyl playback are the various eq curves used on 78's before the RIAA standard was introduced.



What about the compatibility of "cut with a chisel, played back with a ball?"

DC

Carsten Daembkes

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2005, 09:05:29 am »

I finally recieved the the Foo Fighters Vinyl
today here in Germany.

It sounds unbelievably good, especially the acoustic part!

I haven't listened to the cd for a comparison,
but yo.. i am a vinyl junkie anyway..  Wink

THANKS a lot for all this info on cutting it, Steve!
Keep on the good work!

Regards,
Carsten
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TotalSonic

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2005, 01:28:01 pm »

Carsten Daembkes wrote on Wed, 06 July 2005 14:05

I finally recieved the the Foo Fighters Vinyl
today here in Germany.

It sounds unbelievably good, especially the acoustic part!

I haven't listened to the cd for a comparison,
but yo.. i am a vinyl junkie anyway..  Wink

THANKS a lot for all this info on cutting it, Steve!
Keep on the good work!

Regards,
Carsten


Thanks Carsten!
btw - in more cool vinyl news - although not something I cut - there's a new limited edition Neil Young greatest hits 2 LP set that was done via a completely analog transfer - more info and review at
http://www.musicangle.com/album.php?id=325
&
http://www.neilyoung.com/archives/gh_technotes_vinyl.html


Neil's been an analog "purist" since the start and apparently he directly supervised the mastering and pressing for this one, giving the production crew major hassles with dozens of rejected refs and test pressings along the way. anyway - doing a simple 2 step process with lacquer master is a heckuva expensive proposition if you scratch the stampers!  Cool that they went these extra steps - seems worth picking up.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

fu man

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2005, 05:34:32 pm »

Wow, many thanks Steve for the very informative posts.  As a dance music producer/engineer/DJ, I deal with vinyl on a daily basis, and it's great to have more insight into the mastering process.  Smile

A quick question for you: in my 10 years in the industry I have developed a general preference for dance records cut in the UK over pretty much anywhere else (for the kind of music I play, this includes mastering houses mainly in the US, Holland and Germany).  The cuts generally sound 'hotter' (obviously an essential for the DJ market), have better dynamics, a warmer, more solid low end and more open highs.  Because it seems to be a geographical trend, I have always wondered if there a different standard that they use, a la the RIAA EQ curve?  

I'm ordering both the vinyl and dual disc CD versions of the Foo Fighters album today, I look forward to hearing both the music and your work!

Cheers

Mike
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TotalSonic

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2005, 10:36:32 am »

fu man wrote on Wed, 06 July 2005 22:34


A quick question for you: in my 10 years in the industry I have developed a general preference for dance records cut in the UK over pretty much anywhere else (for the kind of music I play, this includes mastering houses mainly in the US, Holland and Germany).  The cuts generally sound 'hotter' (obviously an essential for the DJ market), have better dynamics, a warmer, more solid low end and more open highs.  Because it seems to be a geographical trend, I have always wondered if there a different standard that they use, a la the RIAA EQ curve?  




Hi Mike -
No, there isn't any different standard in the UK.  I'd say that the Exchange & Heathmans in London both have a well deserved reputation as making great dance cuts - but this is a result of the care that their facilities have been made with and the experience of the engineers that work there - and the fact that some of the best dance producers have a long standing relationship with them so gain experience themselves in how to provide mixes that translate well to vinyl - not because of any geographical location.  

However, provided with a good mix, I believe that the cuts that I (and many other US based cutting engineers) can without a question match or exceed the quality of cuts being done anywhere.  Being in NYC most of the work I get is hip-hop, both for well known and underground artists, and perhaps this has me pegged as specializing in this niche by some, but I also deal regularly with house, drum&bass, house, techno, idm, etc. and feel equally comfortable in these genres (along with LP work for rock, jazz & avantgarde)

Best regards,
Steve Berson

fu man

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2005, 11:48:27 am »

Thanks for the info Steve, that's kind of what I expected.  

If the record label gives me my choice (which doesn't happen often enough, unfortunately) I prefer to have my cuts done at Masterpiece, they have a couple of guys who do awesome work.  I have heard lots of good cuts from Heathmans, The Exchange and Loud Mastering as well.

I produce progressive house and downtempo, so maybe I'll try you out on one of my forthcoming releases.   Cool

Thanks again, take care-

Mike
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Ed Littman

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2005, 10:16:18 am »

Hey steve,
been lurking on this one.great stuff!
I just ordered both the cd & lp.
all are welcome to listen in my new room when they come in.
conact me off list if interested.
Ed
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TotalSonic

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Re: Foo Fighters vinyl & the art of the flat transfer
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2005, 10:32:58 am »

Ed Littman wrote on Mon, 11 July 2005 15:16

Hey steve,
been lurking on this one.great stuff!
I just ordered both the cd & lp.
all are welcome to listen in my new room when they come in.
conact me off list if interested.
Ed


Very cool!  It'd be a great excuse for me to come down and check out the new digs - please let me know a date that you have people coming out there.  It'd be awesome to hear it played on your J.A. Michell Orbe turntable too.  

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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