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Author Topic: "THE RECORD EFFECT"  (Read 5001 times)

Fibes

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2005, 11:34:52 am »

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Fibes
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maxim

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2005, 12:03:11 pm »

i thought this thread was about some new plug i could strap across the master buss
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zmix

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2005, 12:38:43 pm »

David Byrne nearly but not quite brings up an interesting point; that context is now a variable in the consumption of music.

This is a major change since recorded music emerged, though it was theorised before Sousa by Eric Satie and his concept of "Furniture Music", that is to say music in the home without musicians actually being present and the interaction with them that this would require...

The portable music player phenomenon which started in the 1960s with the transistor radio has done much to influence the meaning we  give to the music we hear... A summer day on the beach listening to surf music is not the exercise in abstraction that the same music performed in a concert hall at night represents...

CZ

ted nightshade

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2005, 02:06:05 pm »

zmix wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 09:38

David Byrne nearly but not quite brings up an interesting point; that context is now a variable in the consumption of music.

This is a major change since recorded music emerged, though it was theorised before Sousa by Eric Satie and his concept of "Furniture Music", that is to say music in the home without musicians actually being present and the interaction with them that this would require...

The portable music player phenomenon which started in the 1960s with the transistor radio has done much to influence the meaning we  give to the music we hear... A summer day on the beach listening to surf music is not the exercise in abstraction that the same music performed in a concert hall at night represents...

CZ


That's an interesting thought all right. Two experiences come to mind- Obscured by Clouds on the boombox on the beach- man that was good! Sugar Magnolia in a theatre seat with gum stuck underneath- that really seemed strange, like listening to the record in the park would have been the real thing. Cognitive dissonance! Like we're all gathered together inside to appreciate how much nicer it would be to be outside running around doing our own thing...

Other thought- the classical folks sure have funny ideas about what pop music and recording is about, and the pop folks sure have funny ideas about what classical music and recording is about! The idea that we put on the Rite of Spring to hear Stravinsky's composition of it, and we really aren't concerned with which performance of it... that's so strange to me. Some of the performances are thrilling, some are absolutely stultifying. I picture folks putting on bad classical records and thinking "huh, I guess all those classical folks are really into this or something? Takes all kinds, I guess..."
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Ted Nightshade aka Cowan

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maxdimario

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2005, 04:08:22 am »

Classical music is based on the composition, which would be songwriting and arrangement in pop music terms.

Bach, for instance sounds convincing on any instrument, and also on a sequencer to the grid, because it is based on the musical notes and not sound.

But until you do hear the proper performances you have difficulty in appreciating the complete beauty and meaning of the music.
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ted nightshade

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2005, 08:31:40 am »

maxdimario wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 01:08

Classical music is based on the composition, which would be songwriting and arrangement in pop music terms.

Bach, for instance sounds convincing on any instrument, and also on a sequencer to the grid, because it is based on the musical notes and not sound.

But until you do hear the proper performances you have difficulty in appreciating the complete beauty and meaning of the music.


I will say that Bach holds up remarkably well in this regard. Although he expected the performer to supply ornaments and phrasing and dynamics and the rest. By the time we get to Ravel's orchestration of Night on Bald Mountain, it's very much about sound...

It's amazing how a good performer can turn what's on the page into music, more or less regardless of what it is. This applies to someone like Louis Armstrong too- there ain't a song so sappy that he can't feel it. Amazing!

I will also recall Evelyn Glennie, the classical percussionist, saying that music is precisely everything the musician brings to the performance that is not specified  in the score.
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Ted Nightshade aka Cowan

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compasspnt

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2005, 02:11:16 pm »

It would always be so horrifying in music school to go to the many required student recitals.  Almost everyone would "warm up" with a "simple" Bach piece (usually Prelude/Fugue) played very mechanically by rote...then get into "their" program.

That's not how Bach was meant to be played!  If you don't know the recordings, check out the Preludes and Fugues by Joao Carlos Martins.
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maxim

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2005, 06:16:25 am »

or some jacques loussier trio

speaking of recitals, i had to go to my 8 yr old son's school concert this morning

nothing against the kids, but i nearly jumped on stage at one moment and ripped the guitar out of someone's hands to try and rock it up a little

a lot of somnambulant parents in that audience

i don't know if this has anything to do with this thread, but i just had to vent

thank you for listening
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Brian Kehew

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2005, 01:54:07 pm »

I love it all - we have it all.

LIVE music - I am obsessed by it - I go see it several nights each week. When it's great, it kills, and it is momentary, a shared experience, a visceral thrill.

FAKE music (I even like to call it that) that no one could perform live. This includes any varition on studio "fixing" or music created completely from sound engines. I don't love it ALL (as I don't love all live music), but I grew up with Switched On Back and the Moroder classics. Superb records nonetheless.

Nothing's dead - but VERY little of it is as healthy as it could be. (Read that again - I'm interested in the concept!)Commerce, outside influences, media formats - these all affect how true and exploratory our music really is....
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tomhartman

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2005, 08:39:36 pm »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Wed, 08 June 2005 20:01

 The Beatles also weren't nearly as innovative as the pop-culture pundits would have people believe. They expanded the pallet of what could get radio which was a big deal but this was a product of their unprecedented celebrity rather than of their technology.


I have the utmost respect for you Bob, but on his one, I don't believe it for a second.

I was playing guitar and already studying pop records (instead being outside playing ball or whatever) as a young kid two years before they came out. I was already well schooled in The Everly's, Rick Nelson, Beach Boys, and the like.

One listen to "I Want To Hold Your Hand," vs. all that had come before however, should quiet any "not innovative" in the audience. No record had ever had guitars like that on it, and the even the song structure was inspired....the intro being a section of what you would later hear in the bridge. Brilliant single, a fit intro to the US audience. One has only to listen to the "Top 40" from the weeks before it hit the US airwaves to get an inkling of just how different a band this was going to be.

There just  weren't pop/rock records being made like "Hand," "Hard Days Night," "Ticket to Ride," "I Feel Fine" (first feedback on a pop single), and that's just the pop, early Beatles. Once it got to "Strawberry Fields," or "A Day in The Life," or "Eleanor Rigby," it becomes a no-brainer for who was the most innovative pop group of all time. There just wasn't anyone else doing anything like them, except of course, after they would do it.

They were the first to acknowledge their influences, Motown being a big one on John especially. The Everlys, James Burton, Chet Atkins, and even the girl groups had enormous influence on them.

But their records were groundbreaking.

They were indeed able to get things on the radio that others weren't, but it wasn't because they had clever haircuts;)

TH

PS. Off Topic......>Bob, was it the producer's idea to get that oscillator thing going in "Reflections," and then did he turn to you and say "Figure out how to do it?".....always loved that!

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Bob Olhsson

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2005, 09:39:55 pm »

I'm afraid you're taking what I wrote out of context which was strictly about the role of technology in the Beatle's recordings. It was all very typical radio drama, pop music and electronic music production techniques of the era. The songwriting was exceptional as was their fame.

I understand the oscillator sweeps in "Reflections" were the mixer's (Russ Terrana) idea. In most cases producers weren't allowed in mixing sessions at Motown although Brian Holland and Norman Whitfield mixed a large percentage of their own productions.

TotalSonic

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Re: "THE RECORD EFFECT"
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2005, 10:36:17 pm »

maxdimario wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 08:44

MTV did degenerate music quite a bit.
I wonder what rec companies used to do with the money now spent on videos.


It was called "tour support."
Witness things like P-Funk's cool spaceship landing onstage and endless bags of white powder backstage circa 1977.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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