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[aivoryuk]

Hi guys

well i have finally decided to take my future into my own and have decided to create a 5 year plan and at the end of it the goal is to have set up my own mastering company/studio, (i thought if i'm going to be working for the next 40 yrs then i should be doing something i enjoy  

my question is how did all of your studios evolve???

did you go the bank manager with a business plan and they loaned you the money?? how much did it cost just to start out??
or was it just working up the ranks in a already existing studio??
for those that struck out on there own how did you go about it??

I hope some of you may be able to give me some advice

Alex

[Jerry Tubb]

aivoryuk wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 07:59

did you go the bank manager with a business plan and they loaned you the money??

Man, that's a loaded question !

I should make some smart ass joke here but I won't !  

...something about how going into business is like grabbing your privates and jumping out a ten story window... but like I said, I won't.

If you actually go to a bank, you better have some big assets for collateral, or you'll be disappointed in their answer.

If they like you, get as much cash as they'll give you, and buy the very best gear, with a long shelf life, not trendy stuff.

The RUB is this: if you do get a loan, it'll take long time to pay back those large payments, while you slowly build up your business. Make sure you've got the guts and the talent (ears) for the long haul.

Some guys do it with credit cards, that can be a treacherous path !

Good Luck  

[Level]

JT is right. Start small; buying equipment and build your chops and client base. After you have a good track record and supportable client base (you are making income) then a financial institution or an underwriter will have something to base "their" investment on. First order of business (after you get beyond the above) is to be totally debt free. Work until you are debt free and then your income will be substantial enough to look at a form of financial assistance. You may end up not needing it. My past underwriters got a decent return (they were happy anyway) on their investments and helped me stay debt free after I got them paid off.

Some people can just sign for 100K and go to work. Without the initial experience of digging in the dirt, they usually lose intrest and sell out. I have seen this happen to many start-ups. It is like throwing money down a well.

I am on my 30th year..and I am 1 year away from going out of business, if I have nothing come in. It is not easy. All this work and I have a one year cushion. That is not much.

[Chris Cavell]

Make it a 3 year plan instead of five.  Go for a small loan and pay it off much sooner than proposed.  Then and only then can you go for a bigger one.  Banks today are very wary of shelling out dough for startups unless the propositioner has a history of successful startups.  So, start small but successful.

Your plan should make a point of stating how the profit is going to be invested back into the company in the form of upgrades and improvements to services.  Making a point to show that certain types of major upgrades/investments (hardware, rooms, staff) are preferable to others (software) based on long term value and stability are important.

[aivoryuk]

hi guys thanks for the advice and please keep it coming

I am starting very small at the moment, im currently doing some projects for free of charge at the mo, this is to gain both experience and to gain word of mouth. so far i have some good reviews and other people are coming slowly but surely.

its going to take time and im in it for the long haul.

I actually currently work in the banking industry and underwrite applications, so im quite aware of the trappings and how easy it is to rack up the debt.

[EP]

For my 2 cents:

I am in the young stage of business myself, and one of the hardest things is to do your best with less equipment and experience than you wish you had. If you love music, have sensitive ears, and pay attention you KNOW at the end of each job that you now could do it over and better! This is great because it means you are learning more and more, but hard for the perfectionist in us. No quick way to the top.

Listen. Read. Ask. Look at what gear is being used and don't get into trying to have it all. DIY or 'homebuilt' gear used to be the common in mastering. If you are the handy type, start looking into DIY designs out there, or start meeting people that are. Pick a few good pieces. (on that note I think analog gear is the better investment, but I made a leap and bought the Algorithmix eq bundle because they are so damn good....it was scary to drop that much coin on software, and I still wonder.....)

From what I can tell profits are pretty scarce in this biz, unless you manage to get to the top rung, so to speak. So have fun and don't over-extend.

All the best,

[Level]

Doing free projects to gain experience IMHO is not the way to get established. Of course, I do one charity case per year.

I will do snips for an example for a prospect.

What happens is you are "devaluing mastering" (no matter the experience) to something that becomes some sort of a joke.

I have had really good bands with decent finished product that needs the touch of an experienced mastering engineer simply say, we can get so and so to do it for free down the road. How do you think that comes off toward the craft?



Do not work for free. Your time is worth something is it not?

You will find it damned hard to charge 10% of my rates if you are established as the "cat that does free mastering".

Charge a fair price, if they don't want to pay, they don't need you.

[aivoryuk]

yes level but i bet when you started out 30 yrs ago there were not half the companies out there that offer mastering services.

As technology has advanced as well the internet every man and their dog now offer mastering facilites regardless of their experience in actually doing mastering.

so how does one seperate them selves from the others when they haven't got credits and such to their name???

if i was to charge 120 dollars an hour and it turned out that what i was doing was geting bad reviews then IMO that would be more damaging

so what would be a fair price for someone to charge??

[Level]

Charge what you can get...but certainly not free. 150.00 a day is not bad to start..of course, minus taxes and social security, health insurance, utilities, phone bill, auto insurance. that don't leave much.

On AMG, I don't have many credits but I have a huge resume and it is building daily. Most of my work started out in QC, preparing records for manufacture. the promos were mastered and I got a "revisit contract" with some major labels.

Work is just that, work. you give it away, your skills are not worth much.

[aivoryuk]

Level wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 20:45

On AMG, I don't have many credits but I have a huge resume and it is building daily.

yeah sorry did mean to say credits, i don't want to get the whole AMG debate going again

I've only done 3 masters which i've done for free and this was purely just to test the water to see if what i was doing was okay.
every trade has 'cowboys' where their answer is just to stick it through a finalizer at warp 12 and thats the master and charge 120 dollars an hour or whatver for it.
i just didn't want to be seen as one of those guys because i do value the art of mastering and making music sound better.  

i hope this doesn't turn into a heated debate

[Level]

It won't be a debate on my account but I like to see people getting started out, getting some rewards for "pleased clients". I understand your position. I really do.

I simply feel that if you do something meaningful for someone and you use your investment (equipment, time, home, electricity) then you should be compensated. My Charity case work is a direct tax deduction. (i/e, compensation)

Thats all from me on this.

[bblackwood]

I think you're best bet is to try to find a studio or label (or your best bet - both) to work for. Nothing beats the experience you will gain or the exposure you will get to records you may not otherwise get the chance to work on early on. Almost without exception, the mastering engineers that are successful have come from one or both of the above...

I also say don't borrow any money - work for others and buy what you can as you are able. It may take longer to do so, but your business will be much more financially stable without the debt load. Sure, you may have to borrow a small amount to get started, but be conservative and you will surely appreciate it later.

[Jerry Tubb]

aivoryuk wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 15:08

I've only done 3 masters which i've done for free and this was purely just to test the water to see if what i was doing was okay.

Bill is right, now that you've tested the waters, STOP doing the free stuff now.

I know it's fun to be popular by giving your work away ...but people usually get a deep first impression of you, and if they think you do work for free or "on the cheap" ...even if you're doing quality work ...it can take years to get the respect you deserve.

[Ronny]

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 18:20

I think you're best bet is to try to find a studio or label (or your best bet - both) to work for. Nothing beats the experience you will gain or the exposure you will get to records you may not otherwise get the chance to work on early on. Almost without exception, the mastering engineers that are successful have come from one or both of the above... I also say don't borrow any money - work for others and buy what you can as you are able. It may take longer to do so, but your business will be much more financially stable without the debt load. Sure, you may have to borrow a small amount to get started, but be conservative and you will surely appreciate it later.

Yep, that's good advice and with an added benefit. If you take the intern road, you won't risk getting a loan and buying a bunch of gear that collects dust because your client base takes longer to build than the bill collectors take to knock on your door.

[Garrett H]

The was a really good article in EQ last December about opening your own studio.  It applies to mastering just as much as any commercial studio.  

The writer is a weird-o, but the advice is solid.

GH

[aivoryuk]

thanks for all the replies and advice its nice to know its out there.

in the next couple of months im going to be moving up to manchester in the UK whcih there is a much more lively music scene compared to where i am now.

I've already researched what recording studios are about there and have decided that I would contact them and offer my services obviously at competitive rates not for free  

hopefully then I would get a good relationship with the studio to which I can go from there

its going to be hard wirk but it will be worth it

[Level]

It would seem that techno/dance (Electronica)is pretty heavy in Manchester. I have a decent hold on the quality that is being seeked out and levels. I would be more than happy to exchange a track or two to show you some of the flavors of it, if you would like to hear some angles of it. You can at least go in with some guns "blazing" but proper and condusive to the format.

A fine line with it actually.

PM anytime!

Be happy to help mate!

[turtletone]

I feel that if you have to ask, you aren't ready. If you don't feel comfortable with charging the clients, then you aren't ready. All of this is going to show not only to your clients, but to the bank. There is no way that a bank is going to lend you enough business cash with zero track record to make a difference. Once you've done enough free bee's, you will start to feel comfortable with charging your clients. Once you feel comfortable charging your clients then you will feel an obligation to give them their monies worth, or at least you should. When you start to feel that you can and should deliver more, then you'll be at a point of knowing what you need to buy as far as gear. Good news is that you've been making some money and putting it aside knowing that you need to invest. So this goes on for however many years. If you set up a business now, Get a business name, open up a business account, and start operating like a business, then you will have something to show to the bank after several years. Then they might consider loaning you money as a business for the next big move. It takes a long time to get to a point of even knowing what kind of gear you need or like. Right now the only way you are going to buy gear is on someone else's word. Two years down the road and weighted down with debt, you may come to realize that maybe you might have bought the wrong gear, built the wrong room, etc...

OR, you can take a proven route that has been very successful, interning, then assisting, then engineering at an established facility. Not only do you get to learn from others, you get your ears around gear that you can't afford. You learn how a successful business is run. You learn how to treat clients and what they need and expect. You build a client base. Then when you do decide to go off on your own, you might actually succeed. I would say this is how about 95% of successful Mastering engineers have done it.

[jazzius]

If you're young (it sounds like you are), i'd suggest trying to get a job at one of the 10 or so well established UK mastering houses....this might mean having to move to London...maybe you might have to offer to work there for free to start with....just get your foot in the door and then make yourself invaluable.....can't fail!....it might mean living like a pauper for a while, but that's what being young is for, no?!

If you can't get a job in a mastering studio, working in a normal studio would also be a good way in as this'll give you access to gear, engineers, producers, labels and artists.

Obviously starting your own studio straight away might seem like a more attractive option but sorry, where's your equipment, where's your experience and where's your customers?....there's just too much competion these days for it to work. What's the point of borrowing money to buy gear for jobs you don't have?

[Jerry Tubb]

aivoryuk wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 07:59

my question is how did all of your studios evolve???...did you go the bank manager with a business plan and they loaned you the money?? how much did it cost just to start out??...I hope some of you may be able to give me some advice.

OK, you asked for it, so here's some advice:

We started the studio from scratch in 1990... much in the fashion you described... bank loan, 5 year plan, etc. We worked our hearts out those first five years, which is the term to see if you can "make it go". There were times during those five years when I had to question my financial sanity!

But we survived those early times, ... 15 years, and a few thousand CD credits  later, we're doing fine.

We did it, and with the right amount of cash, talent, gear, hard work, love of music, and a bit of luck, you probably can too.

I know this sounds like boring fatherly advice... but it's the truth.

Good Luck

p.s.  Way back there... before "triple naught" (2000)    ...when we started, the DAW & DAT was fairly new. CD-R didn't really exist yet, Our first 650 MegaByte hard drive cost us about $3,000 usd, our 25MHz Mac IIci cost $5,000 a few years later, our 1x CD burner was $ 4,000, blank CD-R's were $35 each.usd

today I saw a CD burner advertised for $19.95 usd... wow!

I bet Bob Katz or Olhsson can make this tale grow even taller!

Peace  

[nmw]

was an interesting read this.

ive been doing mastering for about 5 years, seriously for a little over 3. i set up professionaly about 12 months ago.
due to my days as an artist i already had a pretty large studio which i used in the early days, upgrading as i went then finally sold off a load of items to finance my high end mastering gear as my mastering had left me little time (and inclination) to be banging out 12"s anymore.

i'm glad that many pointed out the error of doing free work. while it may seem like a good idea to meet contacts, get experience etc in the long term you are really damaging your own prospects (along with devaluing mastering and yourself along the way)
you are getting work from a standpoint of a skewed dynamic where feedback on your efforts will be less then telling...mainly due to the calibre of client and/or where the material will end up, also largely due to it being cost free.

being known as the free mastering guy may be a hard tag to shake off, particularly here in the UK where its not that big in general terms and certainly will make it harder for you to project a professional ethos to the outside. further more, all your hard work and effort, essentially networking at the moment with your free work, may prove to be all for nothing as many of these individuals will just fade away as quickly as they appeared when you start billing. even small amounts like

[Technotechno]

Level wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 19:23

Doing free projects to gain experience IMHO is not the way to get established. Of course, I do one charity case per year. I will do snips for an example for a prospect. What happens is you are "devaluing mastering" (no matter the experience) to something that becomes some sort of a joke. I have had really good bands with decent finished product that needs the touch of an experienced mastering engineer simply say, we can get so and so to do it for free down the road. How do you think that comes off toward the craft? Do not work for free. Your time is worth something is it not? You will find it damned hard to charge 10% of my rates if you are established as the "cat that does free mastering". Charge a fair price, if they don't want to pay, they don't need you.

AV is just starting out (I think?).....so if he is willing to start off doing some jobs for free this gains him valubale experience in many areas which means more than mastering the actual audio....(dealing with clients on a personal level). personally Im constantly amazed in this industry as there are so many people I come across who seemed to have the part of their brain missing that deal with Social Etiquette.......*erm what am I talking about now* hehe..


However, AV should draw the line if the act has no label interest, no way of releasing the track etc. I do think that would be a little pointless. It should only be stuff thats got a really good chance of release so that he can get credited and build up his resume.


I would also like to say to AV that maybe he doesnt need to get a bank loan. Maybe he can do this with plugins for a while until he sees if things are going to work out.


I do understand the cheapening the trade argument which is very valid if the ME has his own shop etc. But for the beginner, and in these times I cant see how someone just coming in to the trade can get a foot in the door without any sort of track record. Pretty similiar in all walks of life.

[aivoryuk]

Well there have certainley been some interesting posts on this subject.

I particular like the one regarding setting up a business name and business a/c. I will be putting this one into action. its things like this i need advice on.

I am also considering setting up a website where people getting more information about what i have to offer.

regarding the free mastering tag, as i stated before this is only purely to gain experience and is not undervaluing mastering or myself. There are not many other ways in which you can practice unless i record my own and master that( which is unadvisble), cd's are not much use either as they ahve already been done.
IMO it would be more difficult to shake of a tag of charging and people not liking what i had done