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Author Topic: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock  (Read 5261 times)

xonlocust

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Re: add on
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2005, 04:46:02 pm »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 14:25

xonlocust wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 13:31

when seeing an opening band or any band that isn't yet well known (again, relative speaking - we are talking indie rock here) - in a rock band setting, it's almost always the drummer that is the limiting factor on whether they make it to the "next level".



Wow  I REALLY don't find that.
This may be ANOTHER thread, but for me the limiting factour is usually SONGS, which should be obvious, and seocnd, an overall charisma or presence.
Do they FEEL like stars or not.

Most bands, even some otherwise not bad ones, DON'T and you can just TELL they probably won't make the jump to the next level.


i think you misunderstand my point.  let me try and clarify:  of course songs [and the definition of that is very mutable] are the underlying factor - i thought everyone here was on common ground on that issue - thanks for making the implicit explicit.

i know in my neck of the woods [and from what i understand, pretty much everywhere] good drummers are also at a premium, and as such have the luxury of being courted by the best songwriters. (it's a buyers market for drummers) look in any weekly paper and count the drummer wanted ads vs guitarist wanted.  

what i meant to illustrate was: take 3 songwriters of decent caliber (again, refer to my contextualization of local band vs touring band in my first post, indie rock, not major label size - we're not looking for the next jet here) and the band who starts to reach out of the area is usually the one with the better drummer.  

indie rock however has its peculiarities - take don cab.  in the indie rock context - i think we can all agree [i hope so, are we all on board here? this is the indie rock forum right?] they're pretty sucessful.  "songwriting" in the traditional sense is not the first thing i think of when i think of don cab. they were something unique, and somewhat of a spectacle for sure - even though for the life of me i couldnt hum a bar of one of thier songs or a u.s. maple record either - but this is indie rock we're talking about - and both bands are pretty succesful indie rock bands by my standards.

don cab would not exist were it not for thier drummer. so much so that he mounted a reunion tour by himself under the band name.  were they ever going to be on a major or have a snowballs chance in hell at playing on tv or something - no.  but that's what i'm talking about.

to switch back to a bit for more traditional songwriting (say, more in the vein of spoon or ted leo) - it's a symbiotic relationship onstage, the songwriters know they're backed by a good drummer and hence "FEEL" like stars. a good drummer knows his/her worth, and the bandmates know that.

regardless, i can speak for the bands i see in my town and that i play with, that the ones on indie labels touring and making impressions outside the city, and generally "making it happen" have the better drummers.  i just know every guitar player/band dude/songwriter that i know sure as shit values a good drummer much higher than the average bear.

perhaps our definition of "next level" isn't in sync.  i'm talking who's gonna be on tour and sell a 5-10,000 records vs who's gonna press 1000 and have 600 doorstops.

best,
nick

xonlocust

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Re: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock n' Roll
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2005, 04:55:12 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 12:37

anyway....second band comes on

"bring back the guns" from houston, TX.  the band was cool.  great ideas....the drummer was weak.

he played kick, snare, rack, floor 1, floor 2, and about 5 cymbals.

he played well....but for what was happening musically, it was boring, uninventive drumming that just missed the mark, musically speaking.....

the next band played.

"too many dynamos" from st. louis, MO.  this band was really cool as well.

their drummer had kick, snare, floor tom, hi hat, ride, crash.

this guy owned it!!!!!

he played exactly what the songs needed to drive forward.  this band was on point, and i'd easily say it's cause the drummer was on point driving them straight through the songs, musically.

last band played.

"the get wild five" from kansas city, MO.  young band sorta sloppy but that will work itself out.  ideas were decent.

drummer played kick, snare, rack, floor, hi hat, two crashes (double kick pedal)

this was a drum corp master.  he looked young, and he had technical skills on a kit that were impressive.

he tried to fit 50,000 hits into a 3 count fill most every time he played one.

double kick all over the place, fills that were sloppy due to fast tempos.  it just wasn't right.

it actually made the whole band sound bad.

i've also noticed over the years (and many bands i've played


it's just like the soundcheck rule!  

speaking simply on my own experiences:

- the faster a band is setting up/breaking down on stage - the better they are
- the less a drummer plays in the soundcheck - the better he'll be in the show
- the fewer pedals/pieces of drums/cymbals - the better they are
- the crappier/older/beat up equipment - the better they are. [to a degree - not including total garbage]

i find this is true about 85% of the time for me. i'd be curious of others experiences.

j.hall

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Re: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock n' Roll
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2005, 09:04:41 pm »

xonlocust wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 15:55


i find this is true about 85% of the time for me. i'd be curious of others experiences.





YUP

the drummer for "too many dynamos" came in with a an older slingerland kit

the black kit with the center band of gold (painted, not shells)

i've played those kits and when taken care of they RULE, but they always look beat up and on their last leg.

his ruled and he played it like he wanted to destroy it.
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jimmyjazz

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Re: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2005, 12:26:43 am »

Bivouac wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 16:34

Am I wrong to demand anything different than what he's playing?  


Wrong?  Doubtful.

Not necessarily smart?  Possibly.  (No offense.)



Do you get along with the guy?  If you do, then I'd suggest you try to reach some common ground with him.  Talk to him more explicitly about your "vision" for the drum parts, and let him defend the parts he writes.  See if you can come up with a way to make you both happy.  Break new ground!

I for one am too old (at 41) to play with anyone I don't enjoy spending time with.  If they're a gifted musician, all the better.  A mate and a genius wrapped up into one?  Fuck if he's gonna leave MY band!  I'm gonna figure out a way to use him.
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Bivouac

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Re: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2005, 01:47:17 am »

jimmyjazz wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 22:26

Bivouac wrote on Tue, 10 May 2005 16:34

Am I wrong to demand anything different than what he's playing?  


Wrong?  Doubtful.

Not necessarily smart?  Possibly.  (No offense.)



Do you get along with the guy?  If you do, then I'd suggest you try to reach some common ground with him.  Talk to him more explicitly about your "vision" for the drum parts, and let him defend the parts he writes.  See if you can come up with a way to make you both happy.  Break new ground!

I for one am too old (at 41) to play with anyone I don't enjoy spending time with.  If they're a gifted musician, all the better.  A mate and a genius wrapped up into one?  Fuck if he's gonna leave MY band!  I'm gonna figure out a way to use him.



Oh, we get along.  He's one of my best friends which makes any sort of criticism THAT much tougher.  I just watch way more live music than anyone in my band does.  By now, I know exactly what translates and goes over well in different kinds of venues.  My singer and drummer don't really go out and see the "competition" as much (if you will...) and I kind of wish they did.  To me, it's a vital part of being in a band (participating and learning from the scene).  The "poor student" excuse usually comes up more often than not unfortunately...

I just like to see bands "rock".  I don't get impressed by technical prowess unless it contributes to the "rock" and I know the average, non-musician, music fan doesn't care either.  That's the way I see it...

This isn't a huge problem; I just needed to vent.  Compared to our problems with finding a permanent bass player, this stuff is cake...

Oh well, I can safely say I've heard the greatest drummer I've ever heard in my life as of about a month ago.  A pretty successful band here called Laymen Terms ditched their douchebag metalhead drummer and got this older guy (early 40's?  They're younger 20's) that happens to be the fiancee of one of my art teachers back in high school.  It's all kind of weird...  

This man is a God on drums.  I can't remember the last time I got chills watching a musician.  I mean, every time he'd do a fill, my buddy and I would turn to each other in amazement.  He's really that good...

I don't think they're doing any regional or national touring right now, but if you guys get a chance to hear him play, do so!  Their old drummer plays on all of these recordings, but here you go anyway...

http://www.laymentermsmusic.com
http://www.purevolume.com/laymenterms


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aarono

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Re: The Impact of Drumming within Modern Rock
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2005, 12:01:54 pm »

(quick side note)
J.-I believe that the band you are talking about is actually called "SoManyDynamos." My band had the pleasure of sharing the stage with these guys at an outdoor festival in Decatur, IL last fall. The fact that the drummer's sound/skill made people stand silently to witness the soundcheck immediately caught my attention, especially since the crowd was there to see the "hardcore" headliners. The sound of his kit was amazing, even in this less-than-ideal venue. Surely he has only gotten better since that time.

Aaron
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j_u2005

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Re: The list of indie rock drum sounds
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2005, 02:21:23 am »

did you produce that Girls just want to have fun song? The snare on that is unquestionably defiant. It's so loud it almost sounds like a metal plate being hit with a mallet.

Unless it's not a snare at all (i am a n00b).

I'm not criticising by the way, it's a fantastic snare sound.
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