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[hargerst]

The DM24 isn't quite THAT bad, but it's close.  Today, we actually did some mixes on it and after a few moments of terror, we wound up with some pretty good mixes.  

Apparently, when we did the OS upgrade, a lot of things reset themselves to defaults - not a good thing.  I can see where it might become a lot easier to use, once we tell this beast how we like to work.

The jury is still out.

[James Duncan]

Quote:

I can see where it might become a lot easier to use, once we tell this beast how we like to work.

Go get 'em Harvey...Grrrr....!!!  

Like the other posters mentioned above, once you get the hang of it, it'll probably be fine.

So have you retired the Topaz for good?

[hargerst]

Not completely; one of the 17 volt rails is out, but we're too busy to spend time troubleshooting it right now.  I'm not 100% sure about the DM24 yet.  Once we're on fairly friendly terms with it, I'll know a lot more.  If it slows us WAY down, I can't see justifying keeping it.

[hank alrich]

hargerst wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 09:11

The DM24 isn't quite THAT bad, but it's close.  Today, we actually did some mixes on it and after a few moments of terror, we wound up with some pretty good mixes.   Apparently, when we did the OS upgrade, a lot of things reset themselves to defaults - not a good thing.  I can see where it might become a lot easier to use, once we tell this beast how we like to work. The jury is still out.

Can you offload your peferences files to a computer for reload after an OS "upgrade"?

[hargerst]

As far as I can see, the DM24 only lets you save stuff to computers as MIDI files, but I haven't tried that yet.

[hank alrich]

hargerst wrote on Sat, 04 June 2005 07:14

As far as I can see, the DM24 only lets you save stuff to computers as MIDI files, but I haven't tried that yet.

Okay, betcha, even if I am about as digitally intuitive as a cane fishing pole, that you can dump those pref settings to a MIDI SysEx file, and put 'em back the same way.

At AES I liked the Yammie DM1000. Did price point you at the Tascam?

[hargerst]

Price? Well, yes, and no.  Our Topaz went down, and we had a friend who would give us the DM24 in exchange for some studio time for his band.  We had talked about doing it previously, but when the Topaz got knocked out, that clinched the deal.

[Gone]

mbruce333 wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 22:50

Ps. Nick Eipers, you CAN pick which "global parameters" you want to leave unchanged when you open new snapshots, it's in the "Snapshot Recall Safe" of the "Library" page, BTW.

I wasn't referring to opening new snapshots, but, as I said, changing sampling rates.

Unless something has changed in a revision, when you switch the DM24 from 'low sampling' (44.1 or 48) to 'high sampling' (96), it resets all of the global stuff (the things that aren't saved in snapshots anyway).
So when you switch back again, you have to manually reset those parameters.

But the thing's not bad for digital mixing, as long as you avoid the pres, converters and Eqs. Oh, and the compression

[Nathanael Iversen]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 31 May 2005 14:33

There are good reasons they don't build airplanes with one 'soft' knob and a display screen.

Oh but they do.  They are called flight directors.  They do have more than one soft knob, but the amount of dedicated controllers in a new airplane is suprisingly small.  Look at the new Cessnas - almost all electronics are on screens with "smart buttons".  Most pilots are happy, all say there is a big transition, even though it is the same stuff displayed differently.  

Me, I just got a Yamaha 01V96 for live use and was very pleased with the initial gig.  It has just enough dedicated buttons that all the main stuff (ie. eq/pan) is very easy to get to.  Personally, I'm young enough to have grown up in the Nintendo generation, and this sort of interface just isn't that bothersome.  I can say that working in my DAW (Logic) is way slow - mice stink for audio, but the 01V seems fine so far.  We also have a Midas Venice 24 in mint shape, and it is wonderful in it's own way, but not as portable, scene automation is sweet, etc.    Think about what combining a digital mixer with Crown "iTech" amps means for live sound gain-staging - you can literally be digital all the way to the amp....live sound with massive dynamic range compared to all analog cross-overs, no repeated A/D conversions, etc.    

I think it helps to have a strong computer background for this newer "user interface".  I actually prefer the "bank changing" to one really big board - provided that you can name tracks on screen so that stuff is always labelled.  Usually the way things are makes sense if you understand programming, and it becomes intuitive why things are the way they are.  That said, I'd be completely lost in this Yamaha if I didn't "get" analog mixing.  The flexibility of the device really only becomes evident if you know how the analog equivalent works and how the functionality is
"normally" employed.  It has so many "features" it is wild - I mean how many of us get to work on an analog console with 4 bands of parametric eq. and full dynamics on every channel!  

I suppose within the next ten years we will have young sound engineers who've NEVER experienced analog anywhere besides mics/mic cables and speakers/speaker cables.  I wonder what will make them uncomfortable as a new work flow in 20 years?  Knowing us humans, it will be something!

[wireline]

So...Harvey...

Now that you've had a chance to work with it some, how do you like the Tascam?  Financial opportunities aside for the moment, do you find it gives you the same results as your beer soaked Topaz?

One more thing: (finances back in play now): if given the choice, would you have considered a 'higher end' digital mixer such as a DM2000, Sony RMX, etc...or would you prefer to stick with the analog/outboard way of doing business?

Yes...I am nosey...and very curious as to where you are headed now that you've seen a better look at the map.

K

[hargerst]

We've reached an "uneasy truce" at this point.  I have a session this weekend with it.  I'll know more after that session.

[teleharmonic]

i would suggest that the issue of complex/unintuitive interfaces is not directly, but rather indirectly, linked to the fact that the device is digital.

i would say that the issue of complex/unintuitive interfaces is also indirectly linked to the fact that the device is, in relative terms, inexpensive.

there is no reason why every feature cannot have its own physical controller except that doing that would make the device more expensive. Since a lot of these devices are sold as the best 'bang for your buck'  introducing more cost affects the boards market-ability.

but i would say the main problem with digital devices and their 'soft' buttons is 'feature creep' and a general lack of design restraint. on an analog device you have to re-engineer the whole thing if you want to add compressors or some eq... with digital devices i think that the temptation becomes too great to just try and sneak some more code into the box and beef up the advertising copy with more features.  just as it may become tempting to record your tambourine in stereo because you have unlimited tracks available even though it may actually sound worse in the mix.

in addition, if an argument breaks out during design about what features the device should, or shouldn't, have it becomes too easy to get around the confrontation by saying "well... lets just put it all in there".

So you get this interface designer (IF there is a proper interface designer at all! good god PLEASE don't let it be the manufacturing engineer laying this stuff out!) who has to make 10 buttons do 100 things and the footprint of the LCD screen is only 5" by 6". It might be possible to make it intuitive but you'd need a pretty talented designer. More often than not i think that the 80 features that you don't use make it that much harder to use the 20 features that you do use.

My main quip is that many of these device designers are forgetting that what a device doesn't do is as important as what it does do and less is truly, often more. it is a hallmark of the digital age but i think, as usual, the fault is with the people (design/manufacturers) not the technology.

cheers,
greg

[wireline]

hargerst wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 10:25

We've reached an "uneasy truce" at this point.  I have a session this weekend with it.  I'll know more after that session.

So...how did it go?  Us small shops tring to stay 1 step behind the curve are very interested...

[hargerst]

wireline wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 11:37

hargerst wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 10:25 We've reached an "uneasy truce" at this point.  I have a session this weekend with it.  I'll know more after that session. So...how did it go?  Us small shops tring to stay 1 step behind the curve are very interested...

Actually, not too bad, all things considered.  I had a few problems (one channel clipping, while I'm cranking up a compressor - on the playback channel - duh!).

I found it easiest to just tag all the Mackie HRD24 tracks that were already recorded, and move them down, opening that mic/track for another take.  It meant that I had to be sure and start recording at 0:00:00 so they'd move equally.  

Since none of the songs used more than 8 tracks, I'd just move the finished songs out of the way, either down to some unused channels (like 17 - 24), or I'd move them to the end of the song I was working on.  That's a very new technique for me and it took some getting used to.

I still haven't figured out how to get the inserts to work, or how to feed some reverb into the playback channels, but the overall recordings went pretty smooth, with only a few "time outs" while I tried to coax the board into doing what I wanted it to do.  I managed to get all the 9 songs recorded over one weekend and I'm hoping the mixes will go a lot easier, and maybe I'll have the inserts and effects figured out by then.

[cjogo]

We use the Roland VS 2480 system --Yes, the digital boards are all intimidating >> the first few months. Luckily Roland/VS has great forums, to ease the curve.

But without the recall/automation, etc. we could never complete projects so efficiently. I remember the mix~down days, with six or more of us trying to grab faders, etc..... no thanks.


I just rely on a younger techie > whom can digest manuals > and ask questions on a forum.