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[ATOR]

Today I had to master some hiphop tracks and with my new insight that it's better to do less I was finished suprisingly fast, normally I'd spend a lot of time trying to make the mix into something it's not. It's a good thing I charge by the track

So I spend the rest of the afternoon trying to come up with the definitive master of Motionsickness and I ended up with something that sounded amazingly close to the original mix.

What makes Motionsickness so hard to master is that there's almost no separation between the instruments. I find a Trevor Horn style mix, where every instrument has it's own place in the mix, way easier to master. It gives you more space to navigate, if everything is so connected there's almost nothing you can do without messing up something else.

While experimenting with different L2 thresholds I noticed that the transients contain a lot of depth info. When I cut off 1.5dB of the snare transients without messing with the body of the music, the percieved depth decreased. I always thought that depth info was in the low ambience levels. Reminds me of the difference in depth I heard with the Limiter tests a while back. Does anybody know how transients relate to percieving depth?

It was also very refreshing to listen to a master without any limiting at all, I almost forgot how that sounded. I'd better not get used to it or I'm gonna be very unhappy listening to music.

You live and learn. Looking forward to the WOMP.

[MT Groove]

ATOR wrote on Wed, 25 May 2005 00:58

It was also very refreshing to listen to a master without any limiting at all, I almost forgot how that sounded.

How bout trying that with your next Hip Hop Mastering Project?  

[ATOR]

Quote:

How bout trying that with your next Hip Hop Mastering Project?

I'm pretty sure that if I did it would be my last     I already got some pretty mean looks when I had restored some of the dynamics from a squashed lifeless hiphop mix a while back: 'WTF, r u outa yur mind, we worked so hard to get that sound'

[bobkatz]

I lost the darn quotation here... someone asking which ME said something about how we can't be blamed for any of our mistakes...

I was the one who said that, but I meant it as an interesting object lesson, not as an attempt to deflect blame. I said that in theory an ME has the nicest job in the world,  because the listener has no idea who to blame or who to give credit for in the sound of an album. Whether we "save an album" (which is rare) or whether we are just "coasting along" or whether we contributed 5 or 10 percent to the album will really only be known by the producer, mixing engineer and mastering engineer involved. Very few people ever get to hear the raw mix before it is mastered. Someone responded to that saying that deflecting blame was of course not the attitude to take and of course I agree. I would never take that attitude, I just was being semi-humorous about how easy it is for an ME to deflect the blame for a bad master. That would be the last thing I would ever do. I try to own up to my own failures  

Additionally, if we smash something, we might say that was the client's insistence. Most times I find that the client probably didn't mean "smash it that much"! And if it doesn't sound louder or better or clearer with that much comp/limiting, then we're actually not doing our job by not finding a better way to do it or even to drop the level. The client doesn't care how we do it if we can make it sound better even if the RMS is a little lower. So we should not automatically deflect to "stun" if we know there is a better way and can illustrate that and it works. It's not the measurements or the meters, it's the audible results.

And many ME's on this forum have given excellent pointers on how a reduced RMS level can sound so much clearer that it can sound louder by not "wimping out" the compressor/limiters.

[Ed Littman]

masterhse wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:01

Sometimes it makes me wonder who we really make records for

we make them for our selfs.  if done with more care then most care for, someone at some time will notice the difference.
Ed

[masterhse]

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 00:04

masterhse wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:01 Sometimes it makes me wonder who we really make records for we make them for our selfs.  if done with more care then most care for, someone at some time will notice the difference. Ed

Ed -

Like you and most on the board who take pride in our work this may be true to a degree. But we are hired guns, and need to keep that perspective as well. We can't impose our will, style, and taste unless the client agrees.

I was recently working out some issues on an album when the client turns to me and asks "How many more CDs will this sell if you continue?". Since I get the CD for free it's difficult to answer that one.

[Ed Littman]

masterhse wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 14:53

We can't impose our will, style, and taste unless the client agrees.

Very true, but I think most are in this biz for our selves first. You tell client the pros & cons than do as you said cause that the way you do  business.

Just like playing guitar. I can't think of one guy who said when starting out as a kid..."hey I want to play for the silvermans at little Sarah's Batmitzva"
Ed

[masterhse]

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 21:57

Just like playing guitar. I can't think of one guy who said when starting out as a kid..."hey I want to play for the silvermans at little Sarah's Batmitzva" Ed

Heh, true.

You reminded me of a time in my formative guitar playing period when I did a reception and we had to play the wedding march for the entrance. When the bride came into the room I looked up from the music sheet and saw that she was about 8 months pregnant. That's about the point when I figured I needed to look into other career opportunities.

Also did a gig at a mental institution, but that was actually pretty cool. Talk about headbangers, these guys were the real deal.

[aivoryuk]

just wondering is anything happening with WOMPIII???

I've found wimp to be really helpful and has installed confidence in myself

[bblackwood]

Yes, WoMP III is happening soon. It's a much bigger undertaking so it requires more time for planning and implementation...

[Ed Littman]

It will be a week or so, before I can move into the new room. I'd like the timing to work out for this.  a little more of a delay can't hurt me at this point
Ed