R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24   Go Down

Author Topic: IC's kill music  (Read 115016 times)

Johnny B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1134
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #330 on: July 21, 2005, 02:09:41 PM »

zmix wrote on Thu, 21 July 2005 18:09

 I would like to personally thank [a few posters] for their hypervigilance and immediate response to rebuke the notion that 21 pages of regurgitated retoric, opining inconclusively about and fetishizing all things discrete might be characterized as moronic.



Zmix, you gave me the best good laugh I had today.

Thanks for the wit and good humor about all this. Smile

Logged
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality,
they are not certain; as far as they are certain,
they do not refer to reality."
---Albert Einstein---

I'm also uncertain about everything.

vernier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #331 on: July 21, 2005, 05:18:29 PM »

I find the observations about IC's interesting. And desks (pre '77 or so) not containing them is noteworthy as well. Must suss this out.
Logged

maxdimario

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3811
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #332 on: July 22, 2005, 01:52:14 AM »

Quote:

I would like to personally thank Max Dimario and Johnny B for their hypervigilance and immediate response to rebuke the notion that 21 pages of regurgitated retoric, opining inconclusively about and fetishizing all things discrete might be characterized as moronic.



The whole point is NOT to take this issue lightly, as you do.

There is no fetishing involved. Discrete is just a word to those who haven't the technical backround to understand..What it stands for translated in non-technical terms is a more natural, lively-er and realistic sound.

.. to say that somebody can record a masterpiece with $99 chinese mics and a budget workstation says something about the general lack of understanding and concern for quality,that is quite plainly reflected in the end product. Anyone have ears here?

nothing wrong with a guy doing stuff in his home studio on budget equipment, what is wrong is seeing the best artists captured on similar equipment.

What's the use of the whole pro-audio studio business, if the studios sound no better than a home studio?  In the long run people wisen up..

once upon a time studios had the best technology available, with skilled technicians just to keep it in 'tune', like a custom race car. Too expensive and too much need for know-how for a home studio. Think about the difference.

There used to be a distinct advantage in recording at a pro facility, not only for the room.

zmix if you want the thread to die off, I would say that the best thing to do is not to add to it.

This IC thread is really all about QUALITY.
Logged

Johnny B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1134
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #333 on: July 22, 2005, 10:24:41 AM »

Here, here.

"Sound Quality" is all that counts.

Logged
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality,
they are not certain; as far as they are certain,
they do not refer to reality."
---Albert Einstein---

I'm also uncertain about everything.

zmix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2828
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #334 on: July 22, 2005, 11:36:46 AM »

Max,
I don't care if this thread continues until it takes up 6Tb, I think it's great Laughing .

I do want to ask you to clarify by example what your point is. As far as I can tell your opinion is that the IC is universally bad, but please illustrate what exactly you are doing to work around this? For example, please tell us the signal path of the last 10 vocal sessions you've tracked, (or guitar or whatever you feel most strongly about) so that I can get an idea of what you've discovered that makes you feel so strongly. Also, please send some links to those records so that we can really understand what a difference there is.

maxdimario

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3811
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #335 on: July 22, 2005, 02:46:59 PM »

I usually use my custom tube pre-amp made with ef12's and V-series transformers and chokes or a refurbished V77 or V72 with an LA-2A clone I built with UTC ha-100x and A24 transformers and a telectronix optical attenuator, since replacing 40 year old caps seems to be a no-no amongst recording 'engineers' and you lose market value.

for mics I use a U67 with original 1967 capsule, no re-skin, replaced electrolityic coupling capacitor etc. or (my favourite)a custom U47 clone which uses a 50's telefunken early high-capacitance type M7 re-skinned a couple of years ago by Geffel with a PVC membrane. Again, this is because when comparing my current mic with the originals , I felt obliged to mod them and re-skin them anyway and I don't feel like losing the value or tampering with a vintage item.

I now also use an sm58 sometimes for more rhythmic vocals such as in dance or rock etc.

For guitars I use sm57, 4038, d12, and 77 U67 U47 anything really.

AS LONG AS THERE ARE NO IC's in the guitar amp or the mic pre or the board.


I also did a nice comparison between a refurbished v76 Studio version I got, which is the dirty-est of the german tube preamps because of the 4 tubes and electrolytic capacitor coupling throughout and it smokes IC based focusrite, on noise, clarity top end you name it.

The best solid state stuff is the early german stuff (not neumann).

I like api better than IC's but the german amps are more natural.

I think for a working recording studio an all-tube console would be just too huge, and would not transfer well to most of the modern types of arrangements which grew up on solid state.

so discrete transistor is the ideal, all arounder.

but if you do stuff on small scale, and use few mics tube is still best.

As far as converters, my personal converters are RME with a modified analog section.

I prefer prism to apogee. Never heard Lavry although I am told by a friend with good ears (who can hear the difference between IC's and audio electronics) that they are very good and close to analog resolution.

My fave tape machine is the studer 16 track with no IC's or dynamic bias, although I remember the sound of an old ampex 16 track that I liked too but it was a bit 'ringy' sounding.

Sure you may want to automate everything, eq it, compress it etc. but if the end result sounds distorted and lifeless?


It's the great artists and musicians that make up 90% of a perfect mix, not the mixing engineer.


So if there is one thing an engineer should always do is not fuck up the signal path.

A singer can control breathing and tone, so you don't need to ride too much. Musicians can balance themselves and bring good musical instruments in.

The only thing that the band has no control over and the engineer should not fuck up is the SIGNAL PATH.

especially when tracking.

So that's my ideal path.


But I could be using anything really, it doesn't make a difference what I use.

What makes a difference is when the people who record real artists use cheap IC's to fix the perfomance forever on tape, and seemingly don't care or can't hear the difference.

Success hides a multitude of sins, they say.




Logged

zmix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2828
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #336 on: July 22, 2005, 04:36:03 PM »

What about the rest of the question, max? I can't find any records with your name on them at www.allmusic.com. I'd like to hear this modded 47 and the LA-2 clone on a vocal.

vernier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #337 on: July 22, 2005, 07:17:33 PM »

You never heard a modded 47 thru an LA-2?
Logged

zmix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2828
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #338 on: July 23, 2005, 03:38:31 AM »

duh... Razz

vernier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #339 on: July 23, 2005, 01:59:34 PM »

Maybe you could get the electronics of a 149 put in yours.
Logged

wonderlandaudio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #340 on: July 23, 2005, 02:49:45 PM »

Did you know some Neve 8078 have all-discrete modules and IC- based modules ? ( Due to interchangeability of cards ?
Logged

wwittman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7712
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #341 on: July 23, 2005, 02:59:47 PM »

wonderlandaudio wrote on Sat, 23 July 2005 14:49

Did you know some Neve 8078 have all-discrete modules and IC- based modules ? ( Due to interchangeability of cards ?


didn't I already say that?

Logged
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

vernier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 809
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #342 on: July 23, 2005, 03:30:20 PM »

Ditched tubes for transistors, then embraced IC's. New new new.
Logged

aamicrophones

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #343 on: February 23, 2009, 04:30:21 PM »

Probably ever single A/D converter on the planet as they all use IC's.

Again, Willy Studer used IC's in the A80 and it sounded very good but look how he used them.  He limited the amount of feedback and used them feed a pair of Class A/B discrete transistor that drive the output transformer.

Tube circuits also use feedback.   We removed the feedback in the front end of tube microphone circuit to make it more linear which is quite possible with the cathode follower buffer circuit.

Cheers, Dave
www.aamicrophones.com

Logged

garret

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1012
Re: IC's kill music
« Reply #344 on: February 23, 2009, 10:54:41 PM »

Oh no.. this thread got bumped.  Can we unbump it?

Is there a way to put the jack back in the box?

Didn't Mr. Obama say something about this being the time when we set aside childish things?  I vote "childish" on this thread.

Hey, anyone hear any good songs lately?
Logged
tomorrow is already here - http://www.worksongs.net/
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 22 queries.