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[LawrenceF]

OK guys.  I'll type this message because my foot is in my mouth and I can't speak.

I jumped into PTLE and actually used it all day yesterday.  I'm a quick study and I have to admit, I was wrong and it isn't as bad as I initially thought.  I apologize for basing my initial impressions on my limited use of it last time I owned a MBox and what I saw others do with it.  Rather than post this on the DUC I  chose to "man up", admit my errors and post it here.

I can see where some of the tools that I'm used to are in the app.    It just has a different way of using them but many of them are there.  Please forgive my ignorance and jumping to incorrect conclusions.  With that apology offered (and hopefully accepted?) I'm going to describe some things that irk me a little that are contrary to what I do in SX.  I'm not bashing it.  In fact depending on what people bring in there will be times when I will actually mix in it.  Let me know if I'm still missing something or how you guys deal with these things.

1.  Fades.  When I applied a fade to a track it would not let me trim the track with the fade applied.  A msg box popped up saying you can't do that.  Why is that and is there a workaround?  Also it seemed at a certain point with small fades the fade tool dosen't come back.  I had to undo to remove the fade.

2.  I was trying to find a menu item for gain.  I didn't see it there or on the keystrokes.  I'm sure it's there somewhere.  If I want to highlight a section and apply -6db of reduction to a section of audio rather than using the volume nodes.

3.  The two panels on the left and right which show audio files, regions and groups.  Can those be closed down?  There are times when I would want to have audio across the entire screen.  I also couldn't figure out how to totally delete a mix group from the list.

4.  Selecting multiple tracks.  I can't shift select multiple tracks in the conventional way.  I have to select each one at a time.  What am I missing here?

5.  When I imported broadcast wave files it didn't seem to recognize the time stamps.  When I chose to display the time stamp on the segment it says "out of range".  I know these files have valid time stamps.  Also spotting.  I was looking for a function to "move to original start time" or something similar.  If I can get the app to recognize the time stamps do I have to spot each and every part with the tool or is there a function I can hit that will just move the segment to the correct start time?  If recorded parts get accidentally removed or moved how do you get it back to the correct spot?

Look... I still much prefer the workflow of SX over PT and I still think SX's interface is far superior but PT does have it's own unique workflow.  But opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of them stink to high heaven.  I will be using PTLE to track and mix from time to time.  Some things about it still drive me nuts though like having to stop playback to change aux routings and a few other things that are contradictory to the way I like to work.  But after diving in I can see how it could appeal to some people.  

It won't replace SX in my shop but if someone comes in and insists I mix in PT I won't have a problem with that.  I reinstalled my Waves bundle to get the PT native versions installed so that will help a lot although I don't have any convolution verbs for it.  It sounds... different from SX.  Not better not worse really just different.  I'll take more time to quantify it but lack of ADC probably has something to do with it.

Again, I apologize for many wrong assumptions and conclusions.  I'm still not crazy about it but I am going to learn it.  Just goes to show...  you can't judge a book (totally) by it's cover.  

(...foot planted firmly in mouth...  hmmm... Bar-B-Que toe juice?  Not too bad!  I need some bread...)

P.S.  I hope some would download some of the native demos and give them a really good going over, not just a cursory glance.  Maybe that would help end these "daw wars" once and for all.  Besides, I can't collect fees for the "foot in mouth" club if I'm the only member!  

Thanks for your help.

Lawrence  

[djwayne]

Hmmmmm. My experience with Pro Tools is very limited as it doesn't work on my computer. I've tried Pro Tools Free and The new Pro Tools for use with the M-Audio stuff...lot's of crashes and lock-ups, so I'm sticking with Adobe's Audition 1.5, which works great on my computer, and in conjunction with my M-Audio 1010LT card.

Nobody's calling me to work with PT anyhow. So most of my projects are with wav & mp3 files...which is good enough for my little home studio.

[LawrenceF]

I get asked that all of the time which started me on this little journey to PT land.  At least I won't turn them away now.

Lawrence

[RKrizman]

LawrenceF wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 07:39

OK guys.  I'll type this message because my foot is in my mouth and I can't speak. I jumped into PTLE and actually used it all day yesterday.

Maybe after a second day of using it you'll answer some of these questions for yourself.

Seriously, though, you should check out the DUC if you just want everyday, detailed help with your Protools system.  This forum is really more about generic complaining and unsubstantiated generalities.

Maybe other people who don't really use Protools could weigh in here.

-R

[MT Groove]

The way I look at it is, whether you like Pro Tools or not, LEARN IT!    It is an industry standard for a reason.  If you're in this field, one point or another you'll need to use it.  

[Rail Jon Rogut]

1. You can trim fades or you can consolidate the selection (Opt+Shift+3) first to trim a selection which includes fades

2. Look for Gain in the AudioSuite menu

3. Yes.. look for double arrows in the lower corners.

4. Upgrade to 6.9 for conventional selection behaviour.

5. Check your session start time in the Session Setup Window (Command+2) -- "Out Of Range" means that your BWF time stamp is earlier than the session start time.

I suggest you buy the Reference Guide and keep it in your bathroom.

Rail

[heinz]

RKrizman wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 15:11

This forum is really more about generic complaining and unsubstantiated generalities.

<spits soda pop onto monitor>  

[djwayne]

MT Groove wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 15:12

The way I look at it is, whether you like Pro Tools or not, LEARN IT!    It is an industry standard for a reason.  If you're in this field, one point or another you'll need to use it.

Well, it may be an industry standard, but I don't use it. The Les Paul guitar is also an industry standard, but I don't have one. I play a Martin and a Taylor, and that suites my needs just fine.

The way I see it, in MY studio, working with MY music, I'll use whatever program that suites my needs and falls within my budget. If I have to pay for the software & hardware with MY money, and take MY time to learn a program, that is MY decision on what program I'll use. So until you're paying me for my time, paying for the software, the needed hardware, please don't tell what software program I must have in MY studio.

Adobe's Audition 1.5 suites my needs, works well with my current hardware, is easy to learn and operate, and was affordable within my budget.

[LawrenceF]

Thanks guys.  I've been mixing in PTLE and I hit some of it's limits already like track count and aux busses.  I thought the 16 auxes were stereo auxes but it appears they're 16 mono bus voices or 8 stereo busses.

I also ran into the P4 normalization problem for a while (cpu peaking for no reason) and when I use HUI mode on my d8b for extended periods it hangs.  I think that's probably because my midi device is also USB.  When I switch the controller mode off it runs fine without hanging.

Other than that it's working fine.  I'm doing a crash course on it this weekend.  I think I'm 80% there.  I ran the spdif output to my digital board to bypass the MBox converters and it sounds much better.

Thanks for your help.  Once I feel confident I can sit down and mix on it in an effcient manner I'll put it away until a client asks for it.

Lawrence

[zboy2854]

I'm surprised you went from SX to PT, I'm moving in the opposite direction (well, actually to Nuendo from PT).  I didn't really want to, until I heard the difference in the Steinberg audio engine.  Doing sessions at 32 bit float resolution makes a huge difference.

It's funny, as a long time PT user I find myself having the same problems adjusting to the new usage/editing techniques in Nuendo that you're having switching to PT.  I guess it's all depends on what you get used to.

[David Schober]

RKrizman wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 09:11

This forum is really more about generic complaining and unsubstantiated generalities. -R

BRILLIANT!  This sentence spectacularly summarizes what I've seen over the last month or so in this forum.  Maybe it should be renamed as such!

[MT Groove]

djwayne wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 18:55

MT Groove wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 15:12 The way I look at it is, whether you like Pro Tools or not, LEARN IT!    It is an industry standard for a reason.  If you're in this field, one point or another you'll need to use it.   Well, it may be an industry standard, but I don't use it. The Les Paul guitar is also an industry standard, but I don't have one. I play a Martin and a Taylor, and that suites my needs just fine. The way I see it, in MY studio, working with MY music, I'll use whatever program that suites my needs and falls within my budget. If I have to pay for the software & hardware with MY money, and take MY time to learn a program, that is MY decision on what program I'll use. So until you're paying me for my time, paying for the software, the needed hardware, please don't tell what software program I must have in MY studio. Adobe's Audition 1.5 suites my needs, works well with my current hardware, is easy to learn and operate, and was affordable within my budget.

It's fine if Adobe Audition suits your need in YOUR home studio.  I don't particular like Pro Tools either, but I learned it cause it comes in very handy.  When you start doing sessions for other people, you will come across Pro Tools files.  Even if all you need is to know how to consolidate the files to import into your DAW, it's a good idea to learn it.  That was my point.  

[LawrenceF]

zboy2854 wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 16:07

I'm surprised you went from SX to PT, I'm moving in the opposite direction (well, actually to Nuendo from PT).  I didn't really want to, until I heard the difference in the Steinberg audio engine.  Doing sessions at 32 bit float resolution makes a huge difference. It's funny, as a long time PT user I find myself having the same problems adjusting to the new usage/editing techniques in Nuendo that you're having switching to PT.  I guess it's all depends on what you get used to.

Nuendo / SX can be a challenge until you learn it.  There's a lot of capability in there so of which I'm still learning.  Some things you'll never use but if you need to it's there.  Steinberg didn't miss much.

I'm not moving from SX to PT...  I love SX.  I'm adding PTLE so I can load PT sessions, transfer files and mix in SX.  I'm learning how to mix in PT so when people insist I'll be capable of doing a good job.  I'm getting comfortable with it pretty quick although it seems a bit pedestrian in some ways and I have to stop playback too often.  I'll restate again though, it sounds fine.    

When you say 32-bit do you mean recording at 32-bits in Nuendo?  Just as an FYI most native apps are 32-bit float internally for dsp including PTLE I think.

Lawrence

[LawrenceF]

Rail Jon Rogut wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 10:18

1. You can trim fades or you can consolidate the selection (Opt+Shift+3) first to trim a selection which includes fades 2. Look for Gain in the AudioSuite menu 3. Yes.. look for double arrows in the lower corners. 4. Upgrade to 6.9 for conventional selection behaviour. 5. Check your session start time in the Session Setup Window (Command+2) -- "Out Of Range" means that your BWF time stamp is earlier than the session start time. I suggest you buy the Reference Guide and keep it in your bathroom. Rail

Thank you.

Lawrence

[djwayne]

MT Groove wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 21:44

djwayne wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 18:55 MT Groove wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 15:12 The way I look at it is, whether you like Pro Tools or not, LEARN IT!    It is an industry standard for a reason.  If you're in this field, one point or another you'll need to use it.   Well, it may be an industry standard, but I don't use it. The Les Paul guitar is also an industry standard, but I don't have one. I play a Martin and a Taylor, and that suites my needs just fine. The way I see it, in MY studio, working with MY music, I'll use whatever program that suites my needs and falls within my budget. If I have to pay for the software & hardware with MY money, and take MY time to learn a program, that is MY decision on what program I'll use. So until you're paying me for my time, paying for the software, the needed hardware, please don't tell what software program I must have in MY studio. Adobe's Audition 1.5 suites my needs, works well with my current hardware, is easy to learn and operate, and was affordable within my budget. It's fine if Adobe Audition suits your need in YOUR home studio.  I don't particular like Pro Tools either, but I learned it cause it comes in very handy.  When you start doing sessions for other people, you will come across Pro Tools files.  Even if all you need is to know how to consolidate the files to import into your DAW, it's a good idea to learn it.  That was my point.

and my point is that nobody in my circle of friends is using Pro Tools...maybe I need new friends.....????? Of course it would be good to have that knowledge under your belt, but up till now, I can't even get the demo's to work without crashing.  Even the new PT for M-Audio stuff won't work with my current sound card configuration, which means I'd have to set up another computer, buy the $350 program, just to work with it...My feelings are a program that costs $350 should work with any sound card...this program does not. From what I've read, PT doesn't work with the new Tiger software either....

This is why I'm sticking with Audition 1.5, it actually works.