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Author Topic: About SG's Superunknown.  (Read 6284 times)

Zepdavid

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About SG's Superunknown.
« on: May 02, 2005, 08:37:41 am »

First, hello to everyone in this forums. Newbie here.

A couple of questions about Soundgarden's Superunknown recording.

I know Fletcher has an important role in the guitar sounds in this record. But there's no much information about it and the engineering from Mr. Corsaro.

Marshall Plexis for cleans and Mesa Boogies for dirty sounds, RCA BK5 ribbon mics, Neve pres, Gretsch guitars...

There's info about detuning drum tracks, and even the use of samples for enhance the drums. I know I hear like "double" hits in Mat's drumming in Superunknown, maybe the squashed treatment (the only compressor which I can achieve this kind of thing is DeMaria clone of Fairchild, of course analog tape too), or maybe sampling enhancement (this "double's" are the typical artifact from the use of samples), or the detune thing. I'm sure that I like it very much, what an awesome bottom end. I heard a similar effect in the last Corrosion of Conformity album ("In the arms of God"), but this thing is squashed to death in mastering... Sad

The bass guitar with Mesas Bass400+ and reamped through PAs in the studio, Mr. Cornell singing through SM58s,...

Please Fletcher, enlight us with some info about this great record.

Many thanks and sorry for my bad english... cheers from Zep.
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2005, 08:43:16 am »

About the drum recording techniques, the info is a lot of net rumours (especially the sample enhancement). I personally think that this is wrong, this is because I ask here.

Cheers.. Zep.
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eligit

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2005, 10:11:32 am »

i would also LOVE to hear some stories about the production of this album.  it is one of my favorite hard rock records of all time.
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2005, 10:17:42 am »

Yes Eligit.

We know Fletcher has some rough mixes from these days, and always he said that they blows away the final one.... Smile

Knowing something about the working method from Michael Beinhorn, there was a lot of mixing tracks (individual drums, overheads, individual cymbals, room mics, direct bass, amped bass, PA'ed bass,  
multimic'ed guitars,....). Poor Brendan O'brian... hehehehe.

We want to know... Smile

Zep.
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JPRisus

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2005, 12:08:44 pm »

Love that album... hear a bit of dbx subharmonic synth happening in the bass and maybe the drums too... the 'double hit' thing is more of a room slapback to these ears, but who knows what they did... snare drum is an all-time fav, custom Keplinger IIRC... used the original line of Mesa Rectos, WAY different than today's batch... Corsaro originally mixed the album but the mixes were refused by the label or something like that... Bud remixed, as he was the man of the hour then.

C'mon Fletch, spill the beans... you were tight with Beinhorn and Corsaro back then, no?
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eligit

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2005, 06:43:04 pm »

one of the interesting things is how open and non WALL OF SOUND the guitars are. really natural and sits wonderfully against the rhythm section.

also all those crazy open tuned guitars kick ass with not so much gain.  more jangle than ROAR!!!  like it a lot. i think one of em has a guitar on which every string is tuned to E.

almost reminds me of jeff buckley more than most hard rock or even some other soundgarden albums.

also i'm sure people are sick of it but i thought black hole sun was one of the best hard rock singles around.  like this heavy beatles tune and then some prog and then that crazy wah guitar solo.

awesome.

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bblackwood

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2005, 06:12:53 am »

While he may (or may not) know much about the recording/mixing process, the engineer who mastered SU (Dave Collins) is a regular poster here at REP, should any questions about the post production of the album come up...
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Brad Blackwood
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 06:30:20 am »

Possibly the sound of the drums with all tracks used (especially the room and overheads, mixed with the individuals, even mics for every cymbal, double micing the toms, kick and snare), in a live room, caused the "double hits" thing. I note its a delicate sound, compressed to suck out more tone from shells and blend all diferent
tracks into one thunderous drum hits.

Maybe the subharmonic synth blended with the live tracks, at least in toms. I heard ago that Corsaro used a delay hardware (??) to octave down the room and overheads too. I don't know if little effected cents or one octave below.

And the song "Fell on black days", Ben uses an octaver all the way down in bits inside the song, I think. From what I know while investigating about it, Corsaro send the subharmonic processed bass
guitar to PAs in the studio and mic'ed them to blend with the original ones.

Zep.
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 06:36:12 am »

Ahh yes Brad. It would be great David Collins share with us a little about it. He did an awesome work mastering this record, not squashed to death in a days that was a starting common method Sad and it seems that SU was a very hot level mix.

Zep.
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Fletcher

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2005, 07:43:42 am »

Jason did all the heavy lifting... I just did some hardware recommendations... and seeing that neither Jason nor Michael [both great guys BTW] like to talk much about it... I won't repeat the stories I've heard... at least not before the 16th beer.

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 07:53:28 am »

It seems the delay hardware processor was an AMS DMX with pitch-shifting capabilities, detuning the room and tom tracks. Maybe it's the cause for the huge sounding shells and grainy sounding cymbals I hear in Superunknown.

The subharmonic synth used for bass, possibly a dbx 120, ran that out through a P.A. and filled the room up with just sub bass, then miced this to blen with the originals.

More light to the scene... hehehe.

Cheers from Zep.
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2005, 08:00:15 am »

What stories Fletcher? Damn, it's very dificult to send you some beers over the net XD

Zep.
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bblackwood

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2005, 08:50:31 am »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 06:43

I won't repeat the stories I've heard... at least not before the 16th beer.

So we should wait until noon to ask you about them?

hehehe
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Brad Blackwood
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Nathan Eldred

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2005, 10:45:24 am »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 07:43

I won't repeat the stories I've heard... at least not before the 16th beer.

Peace



I might have to take you up on that one.... Twisted Evil
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Nathan Eldred

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drumsound

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2005, 10:55:59 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 06:43

Jason did all the heavy lifting... I just did some hardware recommendations... and seeing that neither Jason nor Michael [both great guys BTW] like to talk much about it... I won't repeat the stories I've heard... at least not before the 16th beer.

Peace


So we should ask you at the Howlin' Wolf in June then..?
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JPRisus

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2005, 02:41:49 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 08:50

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 06:43

I won't repeat the stories I've heard... at least not before the 16th beer.

So we should wait until noon to ask you about them?

hehehe




Hey, it's always 5 o'clock somewhere... Cool
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J.P. Sheganoski
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brandondrury

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2005, 02:01:36 am »

Quote:

seeing that neither Jason nor Michael [both great guys BTW] like to talk much about it... I won't repeat the stories I've heard


That's right!  They had better keep their secrets safe and hidden because I'm putting Scott City, MO on the map!! ??????

What the hell am I talking about?

Brandon

Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2005, 06:09:30 am »

Well, maybe the secrets about Superunknown production and engineering must be top secret during a period of time since its release. Then they will be public.... hehehehe.

Until that, we must be waiting for the 16th beer... patience! it's 10th now and I note that a little info will be whispered here... jajaja.

Cheers... Zep.
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JPRisus

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2005, 10:42:29 pm »

i'm diggin some of the vocal treatments... sounds like preamp overloading at some points, other times the room seems to gradually get a little bigger and the vocal gets a little smaller in contrast, but not in a fake verb way... unique stuff! Would have loved to witness those sessions.
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J.P. Sheganoski
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2005, 06:07:20 am »

You're right... It seems a perfect combination of dynamics between vocals and drum ambience. I think the vocal treatment is the shure sm58 mic with a Neve preamp, its overload character is the contribution for the rock vocals sound... maybe I'm wrong in this.

Zep.
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Rob Darling

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2005, 07:29:11 am »

vox- a lot of 1176.  like 1176 to 1176 to 1176.   that's my knowledge from someone who did a record shortly thereafter with Michael.
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JPRisus

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2005, 09:31:31 am »

robdarling@mail.com wrote on Fri, 06 May 2005 07:29

vox- a lot of 1176.  like 1176 to 1176 to 1176.   that's my knowledge from someone who did a record shortly thereafter with Michael.



makes sense... i remember reading an interview on Cornell recording Audioslave and it was all 1176 too...

regarding my comment on the ambience, i didn't mean drum ambience, i meant vocal ambience... as if they mic'd up the room or pumped him thru a PA or something and blended it under the close vocal mic. It's a very natural ambience that varies in level at times.
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Zepdavid

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Re: About SG's Superunknown.
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2005, 11:43:28 am »

Ahhh ok.

I thought you're refering the drum dynamics of "Let me drown" for example, sure that it's a Matt Cameron thing. Calm down during Cornell verses, with less drums ambience. And for this song's intro
(before the fist verse), does it seems another snare and a lot of ambience than the rest of the track? It seems Matt playing 2 snares, what a great Keplinger snares.

Cheers... Zep.
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