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Author Topic: 1 hardware unit to master full album?  (Read 11477 times)

TotalSonic

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2005, 10:30:36 AM »

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:06

 But to me this is not about taste, have you ever seen a guy in a studio that used a toy mic in front of the lead singer and claiming it was just as good as a U47 or at least just as good in a different way so the choice was about taste?




I've actually sat observing in a control room at a session where for a particular track and singer an SM7 worked way better than the much more expensive U67 they had put up first.  Equipment choice (particularly in tracking) is often about context more than it is about specs.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

ammitsboel

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2005, 10:41:56 AM »

TotalSonic wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:25


While hi-fidelity projects going to vinyl appear once in a blue moon - i.e. I'm working on an album right now for Henry Threadgill's Zooid which is a pristine 24bit recording of acoustic instruments live in a room - the vast vast majority of what is going to vinyl these days comes from project studios and often needs surgery for it even to sound reasonable.  So the idea of focusing on vinyl mastering in order to be able to work on higher fidelity recordings is kind of laughable actually.  I'm a huge lover of hiphop and dance music though so I actually really enjoy the music I get to work on - along with the joy from working with a mechanical art form that I came up with.  But if you were interested in high fidelity I'd think that DVD or SACD would be the niche to head towards.


So you never get analog sources?
Also, nobody knows what the future will bring, but I think it slowly will turn into music on the HD for fun and an analog format for real music(maybe on vinyl) but of course i could be wrong.

Well, have you ever been to a disco where they had record players and cd players...? the difference is staggering!
At least with vinyl I know that people won't play it back through shitty DAC's.

I like to feel that I can play music through my processing gear without too much degradation, with the state of the art of CD production I don't find it is possible, with vinyl i believe my chances are better.


Best Regards
Henrik
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ammitsboel

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2005, 10:43:13 AM »

TotalSonic wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:30

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:06

 But to me this is not about taste, have you ever seen a guy in a studio that used a toy mic in front of the lead singer and claiming it was just as good as a U47 or at least just as good in a different way so the choice was about taste?




I've actually sat observing in a control room at a session where for a particular track and singer an SM7 worked way better than the much more expensive U67 they had put up first.  Equipment choice (particularly in tracking) is often about context more than it is about specs.


Sure it is, but i was talking about a real life shitty plastic toy mic Smile
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TotalSonic

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2005, 10:52:30 AM »

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:41



So you never get analog sources?


In the past 6 months I've received two (both 1/4" 15ips).  Frickin bloody shame.

Quote:


Also, nobody knows what the future will bring,


Yes - but we can look at geological facts and know that the impending peak of global petroleum production will shift our economies in our lifetime.  One potential victim among thousands: vinyl record production.

Quote:


but I think it slowly will turn into music on the HD for fun and an analog format for real music(maybe on vinyl) but of course i could be wrong.


Judging by how many DJ's (who are truly the ones who have kept vinyl alive - NOT the analog purist audiophiles!!) are switching over to laptops and CD players that "scratch" - and considering how digital distribution is just now finding its wings - I unfortunately think you're mistaken on this one.

Quote:


Well, have you ever been to a disco where they had record players and cd players...? the difference is staggering!


I agree - vinyl just sounds "right" for tons of musics.  I think the rolled off high end on vinylis just a lot more pleasant when things are cranked up and the fact that the bass end is often refocused from the "rumble" to "thump" frequencies makes it have more impact often too.

Quote:


At least with vinyl I know that people won't play it back through shitty DAC's.


Yup - instead they play back with shitty stylus, cartridges on miscalibrated transports going into crappy preamps  Razz

Quote:


I like to feel that I can play music through my processing gear without too much degradation, with the state of the art of CD production I don't find it is possible, with vinyl i believe my chances are better.


Best of luck.  Just realize that there is a loudness war going on with vinyl too and often the cutting engineer who does more filtering and lets the track get a tiny bit more distorted for the sake of an extra 1db is the one who gets the return work - same as in CD mastering.  I pride myself on being able to deliver an extremely clean record but in sessions clients often choose to go with the loud test cut rather than the clean one - and as in CD mastering - the client is always right.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

masterhse

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2005, 10:53:59 AM »

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 10:43

TotalSonic wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:30

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:06

 But to me this is not about taste, have you ever seen a guy in a studio that used a toy mic in front of the lead singer and claiming it was just as good as a U47 or at least just as good in a different way so the choice was about taste?




I've actually sat observing in a control room at a session where for a particular track and singer an SM7 worked way better than the much more expensive U67 they had put up first.  Equipment choice (particularly in tracking) is often about context more than it is about specs.


Sure it is, but i was talking about a real life shitty plastic toy mic Smile



Actually yes again, I once did a session where the vocalist sang through an old 50's tape recorder mic through a Marshall amp to get a particular sound. It was exactly what he was looking for, it all depends on the application and sound that you want to get.

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lowland

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2005, 10:57:39 AM »

I quite often add SADiE or Sonalksis EQ as the master is run out to make things sound more like a complete piece than a disparate bunch of tracks. It's unusual for me to apply more than 1dB cut or boost in this way, and it can be used for things like bass consistency or overall brightness.

The 'it's not what you've got, it's how you use it' thing rings true, there's some serious gear snobbery out there - owning Photoshop won't make me a graphic designer, but if I was one I'd probably be capable of good results from more humble tools, and might prefer them occasionally if I thought it right for the job.
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rdolmat

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2005, 11:12:37 AM »

lowland wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 07:57

I quite often add SADiE or Sonalksis EQ as the master is run out to make things sound more like a complete piece than a disparate bunch of tracks. It's unusual for me to apply more than 1dB cut or boost in this way, and it can be used for things like bass consistency or overall brightness.

The 'it's not what you've got, it's how you use it' thing rings true, there's some serious gear snobbery out there - owning Photoshop won't make me a graphic designer, but if I was one I'd probably be capable of good results from more humble tools, and might prefer them occasionally if I thought it right for the job.


Exactly!    Smile
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Cheers
rich

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rdolmat

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2005, 02:41:17 PM »

 Shocked

What happened to this thread? Something got cut off somewhere.

I thought we were getting ready for a mastering shootout?  Twisted Evil

(I just started polishing my speakers and warming up my ears!)  Smile


cheers
rich
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rich

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bblackwood

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2005, 02:56:05 PM »

See here...
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Brad Blackwood
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compasspnt

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2005, 12:25:44 AM »

aivoryuk wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 10:16



compasspnt wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 14:50


I have personally seen a Finalizer in the chain in at least two of the biggest and most famous mastering engineers of all time.


ted jensen i believe one of these in his mastering gear according to the sterling website. he's one of my favourite mastering engineers...


One of the very ones I was referring to...
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ammitsboel

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2005, 09:44:56 AM »

TotalSonic wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:52

Best of luck.  Just realize that there is a loudness war going on with vinyl too and often the cutting engineer who does more filtering and lets the track get a tiny bit more distorted for the sake of an extra 1db is the one who gets the return work - same as in CD mastering.  I pride myself on being able to deliver an extremely clean record but in sessions clients often choose to go with the loud test cut rather than the clean one - and as in CD mastering - the client is always right.

Steve, you are really trying to make it hard on me!... aren't you!!!
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EP

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2005, 10:34:40 PM »

ammitsboel wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 15:41



Well, have you ever been to a disco where they had record players and cd players...? the difference is staggering!
At least with vinyl I know that people won't play it back through shitty DAC's.


Best Regards
Henrik


I honestly feel that a big reason that vinyl dance records "sound" better than CDs is that the tracks had to pass through one (if not two) mastering engineers hands, while the CD tracks are often self-mastered. (Vinyl mastering being, for the most part, populated with wise and practiced veterans, and the ocasional hard working newbie like myself...). Also, of course, the CD version is often done up as an after thought to the vinyl version-opposite the norm that likely exists in other musical genres.

In Seattle 'laptop techno' is all the rage (I should have moved to europe when I made the mad decision to setup a vinyl mastering studio  Razz). These tracks are often very raw and unfocused. And don't get me wrong-I love dirty lo-fi dub techno a la Basic Channel or DeepChord and much as I like well recorded acoustic jazz or highly produced rock. But no matter the musical taste, I firmly believe that good production and mastering bring out the essential qualities.


Cheers,

Erik
Post Meridiem Mastering/Vinyl
http://www.post-meridiem.com
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EP

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2005, 10:56:23 PM »

EP wrote on Sat, 07 May 2005 03:34

 But no matter the musical taste, I firmly believe that good production and mastering bring out the essential qualities.



Err-of course we all believe this. what I meant was that vinyl kinda 'forced' this on the electronic scene by virtue of its practicioners.

EP
Post Meridiem Mastering/Vinyl
http://www.post-meridiem.com
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bobkatz

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Re: 1 hardware unit to master full album?
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2005, 09:20:09 PM »

Allen Corneau wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 09:02

JayTea wrote on Sun, 01 May 2005 20:57

Oh yeah, and of course there's all those horrible "finalizer" type digital boxes, that inexperienced guys use to destroy music.


Don't discount the Granddaddy of the finalizers, the System 6000, which wouldn't be a horrible "desert isle" single box.

Allen


Or the DBX Quantum box, now discontinued.

BK
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