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Author Topic: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.  (Read 7057 times)

OTR-jkl

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2005, 10:47:13 am »

Well, I know zero about movie soundtracks, but I gave it a shot. Didn't even try to restore it, I just tried to make it sound as nice and smooth as I could...

(Hope this attachment thing works...)
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J Lowes ยท OTR Mastering
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Level

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2005, 10:52:06 am »

That sounds wonderful OTR! you still have the spread in there but it does not take away from the vox.

This is all so "matter of opinion" on the excersize...and everyones count.

As the title says, Skills and opinions. Had I posted "for a film" would it have been done differently?? and why?

We know..DVD's are many db less than popular CD's..to the point of..if you are watching a dvd on your workstation, you better lower the level by an extreme amount before going to cd.

The key here...are we learning anything? I certainly am..and I like it too!
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HansP

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2005, 11:20:20 am »

Level wrote on Fri, 29 April 2005 06:41

Sound sweet hans...remember, movie context...level lower will give a different frequency layout..on your buss..

Study movie soundtrack level, not pop music nor cd.

See if that affords you more depth.



thx!
so how is this one? Wink
added some expansion and stepped back a bit, from the HF boost.
(changed C -> D went to a more vintage approach, the other was somewhat synthetic)

with ronny's take, I have the problem of denoizer artifacts.
to cure the tape hiss, I would need a noise footprint.
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chrisj

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2005, 12:14:42 pm »

OK, here ya go with the far-field one (would have done it quicker but I did have to do the whole thing from scratch, and I was grabbing a shower and some breakfast while I was at it)

That more like what you wanted?

chrisj

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2005, 12:20:50 pm »

Hmm, turned it around in about an hour and twenty minutes- I have GOT to get my software running in OSX, if I wasn't rebooting the damn computer and taking showers and drinking chai tea (MMMMM, chai tea) I could have turned this around in a half hour.

I always figure, sometimes being able to work quick is useful. I suspect it's extra useful for me, because I can make the sound do... a lot of things, but WHICH things I choose to make it do, sometimes that's cause for 'iteration'. I'm trying to keep iteration to a minimum anymore- I think people tend to tune out after a couple tries. In this case I can justify it on the grounds of "you wanted it to do WHAT?" Very Happy

Yay, clients Dead  Very Happy

chrisj

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2005, 12:39:09 pm »

Oh yeah, and-

HansP wrote on Thu, 28 April 2005 22:44

an AI algorithm could do some more about the distortion, it needs to model the dolby behavior to get down to a reliable transfer curve (histogram inversion etc).


Actually, I'm doing a version of that, Hans: at least I'm essentially making a histogram and keying off that for the expansion. The first try, I was remapping sample values to adjusted values (which can get very aggressive sounding), and the second time I didn't, because it tends to eat the reverberant field and peel sounds off it, moving them forward.

and-

Bill, a digital buss does not have its frequency response alter at different levels (that's part of the reason they don't sound as nice!) Neither does compression. Now, in each case there's a 'gotcha', as follows:

On a digital buss, if you're trying to reproduce seriously high frequencies, it'll take some headroom to do them properly. The reconstructed waveform can overshoot where the samples are. So, if you push digital past a certain point the highs start to shut down and to sound glarey.

With compression, if the release time is too fast it'll start to affect the bass. If you had compression with a super slow release time you'd get no alteration in frequency response, but as it speeds up it'll start to interact with the bass tonality. And since limiting is infinite-slope super-fast-release compression...

Apart from these reasons, gain changes in digital do not affect the frequency domain. (if I'm missing a phenomenon here, I'd be delighted to hear about it- I think I covered everything that can possibly happen)

dcollins

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2005, 12:52:24 pm »

Level wrote on Fri, 29 April 2005 07:30


Chris, analog busses behave differenly at different levels and digital is also reported to change dynamics and frequency curve..depending on how hard it is pushed..but it is subjective and I have not seen any scientific data to really support that claim.

That's because, below clipping, none of this is true!

Quote:


We know...compression changes the FR curve.



"We?"

Bill, tell us more about when you cut lacquers in the 1970's on klipsch speakers?  People love to hear about how they did it in the old days.  Did you really have to keep the levels down do avoid vibrating the lathe?

DC

Level

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2005, 12:55:37 pm »

Sigh...... Rolling Eyes
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PP

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2005, 01:09:30 pm »

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HansP

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2005, 01:24:31 pm »

chris,
you need to measure or guess a reference histogram, and also take into account that the problem here may have another origin in tape hysteresis with a bad HF bias circuit. then a mismatched dolby decoder plus a worn-out tape, and the chaos is complete.
so there must be kind of dynamic discriminator, using parts of these mp3 algos, that judge the relevance of harmonic content.
then implement a multidimensional feedback loop, that controls the transfer curve. the dimensions would be, what you get from modeling (process identification) relevant aspects of known behavior of defective tape machines. then minimize irrelevant HF content.   Twisted Evil
and that would still miss the intermodulation part...

I watched the histogram and by instinct and experience decided for a certain transfer curve.  Razz not very serious but hey, listen...
(and then I was bitchy enough to train the denoiser on an excerpt of the worst moments, where distortion still was annoying)
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chrisj

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2005, 01:35:04 pm »

I have listened, and I like it, Hans. You've definitely corrected for the transfer function weirdness, I do indeed hear it. I find that bumps in the histogram translate to a sort of hardness/fatigue. Your correcting it clears up that tacky DX7 sound, which otherwise gets stuck to the bass at times.

I do measure- my software loses a bit of time as it has to prescan the entire song and build a histogram (if I have those features switched on, that is).

What I do from there is just decide it's meant to be smoother, and use that assumption to control the expansion or compression. I'm pretty happy with it (wish I'd done the distant-tone version earlier, everybody's getting bored of listening to this song by now. Ah me)

Now you're making me want to code a dynamic discriminator and multidimensional chaotic discombobulator. No, wait, that would be the original track Wink

turtletone

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2005, 03:45:43 pm »

Poyser wrote on Fri, 29 April 2005 13:09

Sigh.... As Well... Rolling Eyes Razz  



Oh my gosh, this must be the shortest post you've ever written. Shocked
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PP

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2005, 03:58:01 pm »

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turtletone

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2005, 04:12:24 pm »

I specialize in restoring old recordings of turtle's singing. Some of the earliest ones are from the 50's. I can also break a board with my earlobe but I don't do that for a living.
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dcollins

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Re: A cool exersize of skills and opinions.
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2005, 04:58:19 pm »

Level wrote on Fri, 29 April 2005 09:55

Sigh...... Rolling Eyes



Bill, call me crazy, but I'm beginning to think you sometimes just make stuff up, because you will never answer any follow-up questions about claims you make!

DC
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