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Author Topic: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?  (Read 161090 times)

compasspnt

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2007, 10:19:04 am »

audio2u wrote on Sat, 13 October 2007 08:59


Wow!

* Most informative thread I've read on an audio forum EVER. This has shed a lot of light on a whole bunch of things for me.




In relation to audio recording, what more can we ask of the Internet than this?
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audio2u

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #271 on: October 14, 2007, 08:15:43 am »

Oh, meant to ask a question.
I'm familar with dBm, dBu, dBV and dBFS, but what's dBr?
I saw it mentioned quite a bit in this thread, but it's not a term I've come across before.
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audio2u

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #272 on: October 15, 2007, 02:11:10 am »

Never mind. I just found it by doing a forum search... who'd have thunk it?
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #273 on: March 21, 2008, 07:25:34 pm »

Yes I do still mix sometimes on my mixer.

More umph.

More blending mystery.

More headroom.

More pleasing distortions.

Faster.

Fuzzier...not as clear as the ITB thing.

No weird low end and high end...weirdness.

Cheers
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compasspnt

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #274 on: March 22, 2008, 12:36:13 pm »

noeqplease wrote on Fri, 21 March 2008 19:25

Yes I do still mix sometimes on my mixer.

More umph.

More blending mystery.

More headroom.

More pleasing distortions.

Faster.

Fuzzier...not as clear as the ITB thing.

No weird low end and high end...weirdness.

Cheers



Yes.
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mustgroove

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #275 on: April 08, 2008, 09:52:28 am »

Unbelievably eye-opening thread... 1 quick n00btacular question:

The theories featured in this thread aren't just limited to Pro Tools, and apply equally to 32bit floating point DAWs, don't they?
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PaulyD

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #276 on: April 08, 2008, 07:19:01 pm »

mustgroove wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 06:52

The theories featured in this thread aren't just limited to Pro Tools, and apply equally to 32bit floating point DAWs, don't they?


Yes, they do.

A thread related to this one can be found at the top of the Whatever Works forum. The entire thread is a worthwhile read, but if you want an explanation as to why this is, jump right to page 8 of that thread and read astroshack's post.

Paul

mustgroove

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #277 on: April 08, 2008, 09:53:54 pm »

PaulyD wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 00:19

Yes, they do.

A thread related to this one can be found at the top of the Whatever Works forum. The entire thread is a worthwhile read, but if you want an explanation as to why this is, jump right to page 8 of that thread and read afroshack's post.

Paul


Thanks very much Paul... I had a suspicion it might have been a little different for floating point systems, as that post mentions, but good to know the rule of thumb is still the same.

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Elbowgeek

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #278 on: May 26, 2008, 11:17:57 am »

If I can just jump in with the experiences of a recording engineer still very much with training wheels on...

I asked an experienced engineer (he'd worked with some pretty big names) about recording levels, and his answer was simple: hot as possible, and don't be afraid if you get a few "overs" and redlines, but keep those to a minimum.  But make sure you're using crap inputs; on my MOTU 896 workhorse I could push the levels regularly into red territory and get almost analog smoothness to the distortion, never any digital nasties.  

I just hope the Firestudio I replace it with will have the same qualities.

Otherwise, I've learned a megatonne about the deeper aspects from the great, experienced members here - I'll be reading through this thread for a long while yet.

Cheers
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Nick Sevilla

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #279 on: May 26, 2008, 11:25:31 am »

Elbowgeek wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 08:17

If I can just jump in with the experiences of a recording engineer still very much with training wheels on...

I asked an experienced engineer (he'd worked with some pretty big names) about recording levels, and his answer was simple: hot as possible, and don't be afraid if you get a few "overs" and redlines, but keep those to a minimum.  But make sure you're using crap inputs; on my MOTU 896 workhorse I could push the levels regularly into red territory and get almost analog smoothness to the distortion, never any digital nasties.  

I just hope the Firestudio I replace it with will have the same qualities.

Otherwise, I've learned a megatonne about the deeper aspects from the great, experienced members here - I'll be reading through this thread for a long while yet.

Cheers



Just to put a wrench in ye olde "recording less hot at 24 bit" thing that's floating around.

I always try to optimize the recording before it hits the converter, and try to hit a good enough leve that will allow the most dynamic range going through the converters.

To me this means reaching around -3 on peaks, and is an occasional peak goes higher, then no worries. This usually ends up meaning I have an RMS level good enough to capture the sound as best as I can. What happens, IMO, is that I end up with a great recording, and then I can use the faders to set up the basic levels, instead of trying to the the very stupid (IMO) thing of trying to aim for all faders near unity level, and recording each instrument at different levels, ie. "mixing" by changing the recording levels. This is a great way to increase bad recordings, and decrease fidelity.

Cheers
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Tomas Danko

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #280 on: May 26, 2008, 11:59:46 am »

noeqplease wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 16:25

Elbowgeek wrote on Mon, 26 May 2008 08:17

If I can just jump in with the experiences of a recording engineer still very much with training wheels on...

I asked an experienced engineer (he'd worked with some pretty big names) about recording levels, and his answer was simple: hot as possible, and don't be afraid if you get a few "overs" and redlines, but keep those to a minimum.  But make sure you're using crap inputs; on my MOTU 896 workhorse I could push the levels regularly into red territory and get almost analog smoothness to the distortion, never any digital nasties.  

I just hope the Firestudio I replace it with will have the same qualities.

Otherwise, I've learned a megatonne about the deeper aspects from the great, experienced members here - I'll be reading through this thread for a long while yet.

Cheers



Just to put a wrench in ye olde "recording less hot at 24 bit" thing that's floating around.

I always try to optimize the recording before it hits the converter, and try to hit a good enough leve that will allow the most dynamic range going through the converters.

To me this means reaching around -3 on peaks, and is an occasional peak goes higher, then no worries. This usually ends up meaning I have an RMS level good enough to capture the sound as best as I can. What happens, IMO, is that I end up with a great recording, and then I can use the faders to set up the basic levels, instead of trying to the the very stupid (IMO) thing of trying to aim for all faders near unity level, and recording each instrument at different levels, ie. "mixing" by changing the recording levels. This is a great way to increase bad recordings, and decrease fidelity.

Cheers


Part of the reasoning for low levels is because a lot of AD-converters do not come equipped with a robust analogue front end which often means it starts cracking up when you approach full scale and start to sound harsh and constipated.

And that with 24 bit dynamics you can lower your levels and still get ALL the practical dynamic reach you really need.

I guess you can probably make a great sounding album if you occasionally peak at around -3 dBfs instead of -12. Whatever works for you, or for me as always. Smile
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compasspnt

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #281 on: May 26, 2008, 06:40:11 pm »

And it's been said several times already, but don't forget that  George Massenburg often even recorded on ANALOGUE at much reduced levels.

There is a reason for this, in any medium.
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merrymerry

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #282 on: October 31, 2009, 10:39:01 pm »

What a great thread this is...  i love the idea that working at lower levels removes the "flow killer" of the red light overs problem. I never realized this was happening to me!!

And then I got really excited and just had to tell you this.

In samplitude and sequoia in the "general" settings there is an option to lower all mixer strips by 6, 12 or 18 db!!

Thats right...  you can record so you are peaking at -3 db to get the fullest possible recording quality....   and then lower the whole lot of your mixer channels by 12 db to give the required headroom.

I wonder if other daws have this "hidden" function?
Worth checking out.

Bobkatz , maybe you could suggest this to your customers that use samplitude or sequoia?

Warm regards, Merry.

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compasspnt

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #283 on: November 13, 2009, 08:34:24 am »

Hmmm...
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PaulyD

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Re: DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
« Reply #284 on: November 13, 2009, 12:22:14 pm »

*sigh*
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