R/E/P > Reason In Audio
DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
Keyplayer:
Terry Manning [Whatever Works] requested this thread be a sticky
Have fun. F
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With all the debate over the supeior ease of automation in the DAW vrs that of most mixing consoles, I was wondering if anybody was actually using their DAW like a tape deck/editor and mixing from their consoles to a mixdown deck or even back to a stereo or 6 stem tracks on their DAW?
I'm pretty sure those of you with access to Neve's, API's, SSL's etc are doing just that. But for those running in the "Mid-Line" (I.E. DM2K, R-100, Soundcraft Ghost etc.) are you doing this or letting the DAW do all the work and having your desk just act as a router?
Tomas Danko:
Keyplayer wrote on Sat, 23 April 2005 21:04
With all the debate over the supeior ease of automation in the DAW vrs that of most mixing consoles, I was wondering if anybody was actually using their DAW like a tape deck/editor and mixing from their consoles to a mixdown deck or even back to a stereo or 6 stem tracks on their DAW?
I'm pretty sure those of you with access to Neve's, API's, SSL's etc are doing just that. But for those running in the "Mid-Line" (I.E. DM2K, R-100, Soundcraft Ghost etc.) are you doing this or letting the DAW do all the work and having your desk just act as a router?
I went back to analog mixing with outboard after having done the ITB-thing (first software only, later with a digital console + software) and some hybrid methods in between. Not only is it way more fun, again, but it sounds better most of the time. As far as I'm concerned, I'm getting a lot of the mix "for free" just by staying in the analog domain. With all-digital, I had to put it in from the get-go otherwise I didn't end up with that much weirdness to "gel" the mix in the end.
For whatever harm my DAC's are doing to the audio, my console is more than making up for it in mojo.
Sincerely,
Tomas Danko
Ps. My console is an Allen & Heath Saber 32/16/16 LBGPG with MIDI-mute.
J.J. Blair:
Keyplayer, as has been discussed ad nauseum on every forum here, one of the main issues seems to be summing outside the box. So for those who don't have a great sounding console, many people are turning to the Dangerous 2 buss and the Fulcrum, etc.
Now, there is actually debate over whether or not that sounds better. I think it does. There does not seem to be any debate about whether or not plug-in EQs and compressors sound as good as the real thing, though. Well, I should say the only people who tend to debate that either designed the software or have never really used the modeled hardware in question.
djui5:
I was trying to do only ITB mixing, but got sic of it and am mixing on the desk again despite not having desk automation and various other features.
We don't have enough plug-in's and processing power (HD3) for me to get the mixes I want ITB...not yet anyway. So for now...I'll still be using the board (soundtraks Jade).
bushwick:
I have a Allen & Heath that is for all purposes just the shell of it original self, having been completey redesigned with a new master section, summing amps, grounding...
ITB does not hold a candle to outboard mixes from my standpoint and I even use some outboard gear inserted in the some AD-8000 channels I reserve for that purpose and don't feel like I am suffereing in great loss in almost any case with that extra DA-AD cconversion. I putting a BA6A on a snare sometimes is just what you need and there is nothing that I can do ITB to do that. I automate my volumes and some plugs in PT and do some manual automation on my console for Aux riding and sub-mix fader rides and I am cool with that and get some killer results. We just got our first shiny record so things can't be that bad!!!
I will say that a board that doesn't sound good isn't going to help matters. Some mid level boards that you are describing might not sound good and owing the the mostly 5532 based designs in that category you can have mixed results. You have to learn what each of these boards are really doing to your audio when you are pumping a hot mix through them. Some boards in the mid-level do not regulate power to each channel and when you are slamming signal to all the channels, there is some debate as to distortion arising as a result of the power suck from the main supply rails. As far as I'm concerned, there is no debate there. Also, none of them clip nicely, or have the robustness in sound that the discrete counterparts can have - I learned this first hand with the overhaul of my board which was completed in steps - so I have been able to hear the change in the sound of the board in stages. But again, even without clipping individual channels you may feel like your mix is caving the board in. In these cases, it is better to leave yourself some headroom, not push the board to hard and I think you can wind up with a clean potent sound.
As an aside, Thomas, the master section on your Saber can be made much better and the noise floor can be dropped quite a bit. Of all the mods that were done, the master section made the most improvement (so did raising the SN ratio 30db in a worst case scenario!!!). Look at the schematics - poor grounding layout and they even ground the audio to the chassis on every single card in the board.....big no no. PM me if you are interested.
-josh
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