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Author Topic: V/O mic and preamp for TV?  (Read 8231 times)

compasspnt

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2005, 06:22:05 PM »

Sorry Dan, if I seemed at all to put down your ideas; I know you are more in tune with broadcast!  I just can't bear personally to see Mackies, or even Ranes, being suggested for any reason!

I have seen several broadcast stations in Europe using old Neumann's (even tube ones!), and other great condenser mics (not for location or ENG, just in-booth; for location, they would use 421's; that's what those were designed for initially), and these stations always sounded SO GOOD compared to the US ones.  So I took a chance, trying to in a small way improve radio/TV audio!
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Arf! Mastering

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2005, 11:08:39 PM »

Much to the surprise of music studio engineers, the Sennheiser 416 mini-shotgun mic is one of the most widely-used and effective VO booth mics.
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Brian Roth

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2005, 11:23:50 PM »

Hi, Terry.  My semi-recent experience was with radio stations vs. a TV "booth", but those guys were/are HELL on equipment.  Hence the suggestions for a rugged dynamic mic such as the Shure SM7 (or the discontinued SM5) or an RE20.

As far as the electronic chain, I can only speak from some more recent experience based on a "TV news" type of facility and I was pleased with the Aphex Compellor.  One feature it has that is sometimes found on other broadcast gear is a "release pause" mode to prevent a gain "rush up" during moments of silence.

I used the Compellor on the desk's main output vs. on a single mic path, but since only one Talking Head was yacking at one time in most cases, the results should be similar to a mic -> preamp -> Compellor.

Bri

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Brian Roth Technical Services
Oklahoma City, OK
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RKrizman

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2005, 12:42:26 AM »

Brian Roth wrote on Wed, 13 April 2005 16:36

Well, the on-air "announce positions" for many/most radio stations definitely do processing on the mic channel, independently of the audio chain that outputs to the transmitter.

Bri




I'm talking about VO booths in a tv station.  Most people have told me that compression occurs as the last thing before it all hits the transmitter and that it's clean up to there.  That could be old school, though.
-R
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Brian Roth

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2005, 02:05:02 AM »

Sorry...been out of the loop a bit.

Radio chain:  DJ mic -> preamp/EQ -> on-air path.

"Talk TV"...similar, but without as much EQ trickery in order to make the announcer sound Ballsey.

In either case, pre-compression was the norm.  Compellor was just one solution I found, partly because it included the "don't twist up the gain inside of the compressor when the talent quits talking".

That's been a "given" with broadcast gizmos for 3+ decades!  Otherwise, you'll hear the ambience/HVAC noise floor ramp-up in- between the words of the DJ/news reader if you're using a moderate/lot of gain reduction.

IOW, running an LA-2 into 10 dB of gain reduction is NOT the answer.  The room noise/ambience will "breathe" when the announcer takes a pause whilst reading the script.

Bri

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Brian Roth Technical Services
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compasspnt

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2005, 11:29:21 PM »

I agree that the Compellor is a great idea for this!
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Roland Storch

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2005, 01:37:04 AM »

Combination of the Gefell m930 and the V01 from Juenger-Audio is perfect for TV.

Especially the V01 gives you everything you need, sound and loudness.
http://www.junger-audio.com
It has a mic pre, a digital EQ section and a dynamics section.
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Brian Roth

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2005, 02:40:39 AM »

It wasn't clear to me that the V01 included the "anti breathing" functions that American broadcast units have since the (ugh!) CBS Labs products.

CBS radio boxes had an analog feature that "froze" the gain reduction release if the input signal dropped below a threshold.  That prevented the box from "seeking every noise in the room" when it released out of compression.  In music recording, that wasn't a FEATURE..in broadcast booths, it was.

I know, it'a silly for me to harp on this, but "broadcast boxes" have included that since I was a Mere Child in high school CA 1972, while I was working at a local FM station.  It prevents a "noise suck up" during silent pauses.  I consider that a key feature.  A noise gate can't duplicate that function.

Bri

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Brian Roth Technical Services
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magicchord

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2005, 10:07:52 AM »

I agree with Brian.

When I was designing a VO booth for a TV station here in L.A., I put in a Symetrix 421m. It did exactly the job they needed it to do, which was ride the level without operator intervention.
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Patrick Bryant - Magicchord Music BMI

Otitis Media

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2005, 06:53:18 PM »

Oh, not offended!  A 421 would be a good choice, too - although some folks seem to think they're only good for horns or toms.  The 416 short shotgun is a great microphone that'd need very little EQ on the back end and just a little 2.5 - 3:1 compression on the back end.  I'd have loved to use a 47, 67, etc or something more esoteric, but I fear that they're too delicate for the type of treatment they may get.  

BTW: Heard "Out On The Tiles" yesterday.  Even thru radio processing I was totally digging it...


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Dan Roth
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Teddy G.

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2005, 05:53:42 PM »

For many years, the most often seen VO mic has been the AKG C414B ULS(All I do is VO, mostly in VO/Post studios in Philadelphia/Baltimore.). A quite similar mic is the Beyer Dynamic MC34(?), though not as often seen, by me, it's very nice.

I would have NO trouble recommending the RE-20. It does not offer the "sound" of the AKG, but is very easy to work with, particularly for those who are not VO-proficient - and it sounds just fine - Both mics are as "pro" as it gets... If you want variety, get an RE-20(Or a Sennheiser 421 - very similar type), a 414 ULS and a 414 TLS(The new AKG models have different numbers/features, but are the same mics). The TLS is said to be "tailored to VO". I'd say, more likely "tailored to SOME VO"... Be nice to have all 3. Other than these three(4), you'd have to get very pricey and rather esoteric - A waste for "normal" broadcast(Even very good broadcast), for the most part.

Of course their are a million mics out there, all of which may work just fine - but the key word is "may"? The the RE-20, the 414 and the 421, have the "proven over many years" ability to do the job, day-in, day-out, very, very well...

Whatever you get, make sure you also buy the "factory" shockmount(Usually the spider kind).

If you want to get a little "esoteric", maybe the Beyer Dynamic M160? A "ribbon" mic? Very cool, but I'm not sure how much of a beating it would take and it may need a "high gain" pre?

A Stedman pop/blast filter should be mandatory for at least the condensers.


Preamp? For a "no operator" set-up, any quality "straight"(On/off/gain control) pre should do. The Grace designs 101, would be marvelous in every respect. For something with some "kick", one of the "channel strips", could be very good. They offer a preamp plus compression, EQ, De-essing, etc. Something in a pricey(Worth it), very cool, tube preamp, with lots of "strip" features to adjust if you want but you can use the pre all by itself? The Pendulum Audio Quartet. Many others around that are solid state, which may be "better" in a broadcast facility?  

Spending "someone else's money"? I might consider Summit Audio? They range from affordable to "Are you serious?". I'd get these model numbers wrong, too. Go to their site and find the pre for around 600 dollars(US) - that's it. Also, they offer a "companion" leveler(Easier to use than a standard compressor), the TLA-50. About the same price. These two would provide a very nice "VO chain" all by themselves, paired with a nice mic. You can also add a "de-essing" EQ(Almost any parametric?), in "sidechain", if you like. These are solid state OR tube gear, but "simple" tube gear, with "easy" tubes.

TG
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Mike Cleaver

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2005, 12:52:00 AM »

For a standard Radio/TV installation, an RE20 or SM7 will give you good service with a variety of performers and won't break the bank if someone busts it.
Be sure to get the proper shock mount for the RE20.
For preamp/processing duties, most stations in Canada and the US use the Symetrix 528E.
Set it up for the average user and put a cover over the controls.
It includes the pre, phantom power if you want to use a condensor such as a Neumann U87, compression, equalization and upward/downward expansion to kill noise.
It's a versatile, reliable and inexpensive box for all it does.
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Mike Cleaver Broadcast Services
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RKrizman

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2005, 01:01:42 PM »

Thanks Mike, that seems like a great suggestion.  Anybody else have an opinion about this box in terms of its ease of use and basic sound quality?

-R
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RKrizman

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Re: V/O mic and preamp for TV?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2005, 01:04:35 PM »

Thanks Mike, that seems like a great suggestion.  Anybody else have an opinion about this box in terms of its ease of use and basic sound quality?

-R
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