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[gtoledo3]

wwittman wrote on Wed, 20 April 2005 00:56

As many here already know... these records make me run screaming from the room. I don't like the sound at ALL. Sterile to the nth. The fact that it was a drum machine only helps to eplain the souless, lifeless quality of the entire thing.

Remember, it is often something's weakness that is it's strength......actually I think that is always true.

I have defended "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" numerous times!

[David Schober]

gtoledo3 wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 19:22

I have defended "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" numerous times!

You mean those drums weren't real????

[gtoledo3]

David Schober wrote on Wed, 20 April 2005 01:37

gtoledo3 wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 19:22 I have defended "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" numerous times! You mean those drums weren't real????

I actualy think they were, right?  

[wwittman]

They're certainly real except for the HH and they're also not fixed or quantised or perfected.


You don't have to defend Girls, or even LIKE it.

That's taste!

So Ashlee Simpson's lack of singing ability is her strength?

[jwhynot]

Aja good.  Gaucho, not so much.

I don't mind the content - although it's not exactly my #1.  It's the sound.

Something about the treble… just makes me want to get that CD out of there as quick as possible.

I just never drank the Gaucho koolaid I guess.

YMMV.
JW

PS I honestly don't care at all what multitrack they used, or what instruments.  Nodding to the fact that a "pro audio" message board is pretty much a nerd convention in that regard.

[J.J. Blair]

Countdown to Ecstasy, Royal Scam, Can't Buy a Thrill, Pretzel Logic, Aja, that is that band at their best.  Gaucho has four good songs, and the rest are pretty damn boring.  I'd be really surprised if "Babylon Sisters" is a machine.  I don't think those things know how to do the Purdie shuffle.  But you can really hear the machine quality on "Hey Nineteen" and "Time Out of Mind".  The cymbals sound like ass on those. And another shitty thing about that record, too many Walter Becker guitar solos.  

But the most criminal thing about it, and I think I posted the mp3 once, is how the title track was completely fucking plagiarized from a Keith Jarret tune called "As Long As You Know You're Livin' Yours."  I mean, really shameful.

Sometimes I see that bumper sticker that says, "Drums machines have no soul," and I think, "But they won't want publishing or try to fuck your girlfriend while you're busy doing overdubs."

[gtoledo3]

wwittman wrote on Wed, 20 April 2005 03:29

They're certainly real except for the HH and they're also not fixed or quantised or perfected. You don't have to defend Girls, or even LIKE it. That's taste! So Ashlee Simpson's lack of singing ability is her strength?

Well, that is Ashlee's strength....but it blew up in her face!

Look at it this way- her strength is that girls her age "relate" to her and she seems just like them. So that is Ashlee's strength.....the fans live the fantasy through her.

It is the same personality and character she has that makes her saleable, that led her down the path to being lazy and not taking her singing seriously.

She's like most girls her age (that are a little spoiled). When a problem comes up, the parents run in and "fix" it.

BTW, I have always loved "Girls"....I can remember the first time I heard it, and the synth flourish that opens it up....It was kind of like hearing the feedback that begins Foxy Lady...a pivotal moment.

[J.J. Blair]

OK, here's a sample of that Jarrett tune.  When the sax kicks in after a minute, you can REALLY hear how badly they just pilfered the thing.  I mean, it couldn't be more flagrant.

[RKrizman]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 19:56

As many here already know... these records make me run screaming from the room. I don't like the sound at ALL. Sterile to the nth. The fact that it was a drum machine only helps to eplain the souless, lifeless quality of the entire thing.

When Gaucho came out I swore it was the most anal, overly-perfected soulless album I'd ever heard.  But 25 years later I still listen to it all the time, if only for the title tune (yes, the Keith Jarrett "homage", har, har) and Babylon Sisters.  Was it really recorded on a digital machine?  I'm astounded, if not a little skeptical.    Was it also mixed ITB? (just kidding).  In any case, then why did the Nightfly just sound like complete ass in comparison?

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think there was a drum machine.  I got the impression that on songs like Hey Nineteen they looped live performances and used Wendel to replace the individual drum hits with samples.  Kind of a "Steely Dan just wants to have fun" thing.

-R

[RKrizman]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 22:29

They're certainly real except for the HH and they're also not fixed or quantised or perfected. You don't have to defend Girls, or even LIKE it. That's taste! So Ashlee Simpson's lack of singing ability is her strength?

I think both she and Cindy Lauper could be poster girls for the statement that "style is a function of your limitations".  There are lots of reasons to despise "Girls" other than for it's ticky-tack highhat sequence.

As for the Dan, I always thought that the drum machine itself was sort of the reductio ad absurdum of their incessant search for perfection.

-R

[maxim]

out of interest, william, do you use click tracks?

[thedoc]

I like the vocal sound on "Girls", particularly the slap echo, Do you remember what you did there?

I also think it was performed quite well.

[maxim]

imo, cyndi is one of the very few original artists we've been blessed to hear in our lives

both a brilliant interpreter and songwriter (very rare combo)

ashlee, on the other hand, is a talentless poppet

to put them in the same sentence is akin to anathema

fatwah on you, rkrizman

[G. Hoffman]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 19 April 2005 18:56

As many here already know... these records make me run screaming from the room. I don't like the sound at ALL. Sterile to the nth. The fact that it was a drum machine only helps to eplain the souless, lifeless quality of the entire thing.

Well, I kind of like a few songs on Nitefly, but as for the sound, I only ever had it on a cassette, so I am not even gonna try and comment.


And I just have to ask, is Joan Osborne as easy to record as she sounds?  I mean, wow, what a voice.



Gabriel

[David Schober]

All I can say about the Wendal is what I was told.  And admittedly, it was a number of years ago, but still I'm pretty certain about the conversation.  Babylon Sisters was the song in question and I was told that Purdie's shuffle was recorded/sampled then replayed.  And yes, WW is right.  The reason for this was because of their search for a drum track played in "perfect" time.  I'm not defending this...just passing along the info.  Frankly, I don't mind tracks moving around a bit.  But I remember at Porcaro's funeral stories told of him being constantly frustrated at his inability to play a fill in time!  Those guys just hear things that don't bother me.  

These guys weren't using a drum machine in the way we think of it.  As I understood it, they had each guy show up, decided what to play, then and performed pieces of each song (kicks, back beats, fills, flams. Purdie's snare drags, etc) into the computer, then played it back.  I think the hats and crashes were played live, but the drums were Wendal.  

The process was nothing like a guy showing up with a drum machine and his sounds.  Each tune was custom setup for the player and the song.  Thus, the credits read as such.



No doubt Gaucho is a homage to Jarret at best...a bit of a rip at worst.  However, to me, Jarret's tune seems to be a riff in search of a song.  I guess that's why he couldn't sue them.  The boys did borrow from time to time.  There's an old Blue Note recording of a Horace Silver tune called Song For My Father they lifted.  Note for note the intro is exactly the same on Rikki Don't Lose That Number.  Still, they made a song out of it that's nothing like the orginal.  Who knows which came first, the borrowed/stolen riff, or the actual song?
(I don't have the song, but if ya wanna hear the tune, here's a link to Amazon.  It's on the album, "Best of Blue Note vol 1."  You can scroll down and hear the tune from there)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005HGV/qid=111400 2317/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-4861749-4361759


Regarding Gaucho, I was such an Aja fan, when it came out, except for Babylon Sisters, I didn't really like it.  However after a few years I figured it out.  To me it was one of those  albums that takes a while to open up.  Maybe I wanted another Aja....Nightfly I liked right away, but only a few songs on that one still grab me the way they once did.

As for me, I love most of their stuff, Royal Scam, Aja and Gaucho in particular.  I've heard the complaints about it being sterile.  Well, sorry guys, I disagree.  I think it's great music and it sounds great.  Like any artrist, not everything is wonderful, but  taking the body of their work, it's great stuff.

I do find it a bit amusing that some feel the need to jump in and pile on about how much they don't like it.  There are a lot worse albums that have been made.  Those kinds of comments feel a bit like low-brow snobbery to me.