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[GuitarTim]

I've been experimenting with a VERY low-budget setup for a couple of months (so far less than $1000, CANADIAN), and just bought my first condenser mic a couple of weeks ago.

My setup so far:  Cubase System 4 (Steinberg MI4 USB audio interface, Cubase SL2.2) and my new mic, an Apex 415.  This mic has a low-cut switch, a -10db pad switch, and 3 polar patterns (cardioid, omni, figure-eight).

My question is about the apparent gain, or sensitivity, I'm experiencing with this mic, and the fact that I don't know how to figure out if the cause is the mic, or the pre.

The MI4 has 2 balanced XLR inputs on channels 1 and 2 (there are 4 channels total), with integrated preamp and phantom power.  It also has unbalanced inputs on ch. 1&2, and I've used these with old, cheap dynamic mics in the past and had no issues with gain - I never had to turn the knob more than about where the number 3 or 4 would be (if it had numbers).  However, with this new mic, I need to crank the knob up to where 8 or 9 would be (in the range indicated by a "red line", which I take to mean "this is likely to cause clipping"), AND, I need to be right on top of the mic (seemingly) in order to get acceptable levels for recording.  I'm using a circular pop filter about 2" or so in front of the mic, and not using the supplied "wind screen".

I'm certain that I'm addressing the "front" of the mic when using the cardioid pattern, and also that the pad switch is NOT engaged (I've tried it both ways).  I've also tried it with the low-cut both on and off.

So at this point, I'm wondering whether this is simply what to expect from a cheap condenser mic, or whether it might be that the MI4 just has a lousy pre?  FWIW, I'm not even really sure this is all that much of an ISSUE for me, since I do NOT have a quiet place for recording, and this "issue" means that I can record vocals even when the house isn't totally quiet, and I don't have to worry about picking up unwanted noise.  Also, FWIW, I really DO like the way this mic makes my voice sound, and if this situation (the gain/sensitivity thing) is just something I have to live with with this setup, I can probably work with it, but I do want to make sure I shouldn't be taking the mic back to the store for an exchange, if I should be expecting better performance from it...

Help?  Thanks,

[Barry Hufker]

Tim,

Just to cover the basics:
1) the mike's pad is not on
2) phantom power (+48 volts) is being sent to the mike
3) the mike is plugged into a balanced input
4) the input's pad is not on.


From what I've read, this mike should have no real sensitivity issues.  The copy kept emphasizing high SPL, but never elaborated.  Given this, it could have reduced sensitivity, but I don't think so.

Barry

[GuitarTim]

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 11:57

Just to cover the basics: 1) the mike's pad is not on Barry

Correct... I've double-checked.  It's not on...

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 11:57

2) phantom power (+48 volts) is being sent to the mike Barry

Haven't had a chance to verify this with a multi-tester yet, but the phantom power is definitely on...

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 11:57

3) the mike is plugged into a balanced input Barry

Check... channel 1 balanced XLR input.  The first time I tried the mic, I even spent an embarrasing 10 minutes trying to figure out why I was getting NO sound... I forgot the XLR input needs to be enabled first in the panel app (the unbalanced input was active by default)...

Barry Hufker wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 11:57

Just to cover the basics: 4) the input's pad is not on. Barry

Correct again, and verified (the MI4 has a -20db pad switch - this WOULD be a serious issue!)

I'm prepared for the possibility that I've made a less-than-optimal purchase, but I just want to be sure, and not just assume that's the case...

At this point, though, I'm suspecting I'd get better levels with a different preamp, tho, although that won't be an option for a LONG while yet...

[micguy]

If your mic preamp gives acceptable levels with a dynamic mic, and it's sending phantom power (48 volts) to the mic, then I wouldn't look to a different preamp to solve your gain issue. Any reasonably designed LDC is going to give you more level than a typical dynamic, not less - that's why they have pads.

Check the phantom power; make certain you're in a mic (not line) input. If it's still less sensitive than a dynamic, I'd suspect the mic might be a lemon.

[GuitarTim]

micguy wrote on Thu, 21 April 2005 12:27

... Any reasonably designed LDC is going to give you more level than a typical dynamic, not less - that's why they have pads. Check the phantom power; make certain you're in a mic (not line) input. If it's still less sensitive than a dynamic, I'd suspect the mic might be a lemon.

Thanks.  That at least confirms there is a problem somewhere, either with the interface (not sending enough juice), or the mic.  I'll check the phantom power level.  If it's right, then I'll be returning to the store with the mic for an exchange or refund.  If the power isn't up to snuff, then I'll be returning with the MI4.

There's no chance I'm in a line input... the balanced XLR inputs are specifically mic inputs...

[GuitarTim]

Just tested the phantom power with a multi-meter (through the cable, i.e. tested it at the mic end of the cable with the cable attached to the input), and there is definitely 48Vdc available, so I guess the problem is with the mic...  guess I'll bring it back to the store and describe the issue to them.  I'd expect them to simply exchange it with a new one.  We'll see...

[daQuad]

e with a known good condenser or a quality (at least xlr-shure) dynamic into the same input and settings.

Maybe your "cheepie dynamics" have matching transformers that are effectively raising their output voltages.  What are these cheepies BTW?

[GuitarTim]

daQuad wrote on Fri, 22 April 2005 13:09

Maybe your "cheepie dynamics" have matching transformers that are effectively raising their output voltages.  What are these cheepies BTW?

Nope, no transformers or anything.  The dynamic in question is a 30-year-old "Realistic Hiball 2" from Radio Shack, bought for about $20 way back when...

I have one more test to do before heading to the store this evening... I need to try the LDC on the Channel 2 mic input, and see if I get the same result.  I've been ASSUMING it would be the same, but until I try it, I won't know for sure...

[GuitarTim]

Well, I'm starting to feel like a doofus.  To make a long story short, I think I overstated the sensitivity of the cheap old mic I'm using for comparison.

Got home from work, and tried my "last test"... set up the Apex on channel 2 and did a test - same result as Channel 1.  I also hooked up the cheap dynamic mic and did the same test, and as I had experienced, I got more gain at a lower setting, but not by as much as I had previously indicated... I had the dynamic set at 7, whereas I had to put the Apex at 8.5 or 9 and still got less gain.

So off to the store I go, with the audio patterns printed out, and told the guy the story.  He was willing to be helpful, and hooked up my mic to a ProTools setup, tried it out by recording "Test...Test" with the gain at about half, and his lips up against the mic, then hooked up a new one of the same model and did the same test, same result (this tells me that ALL examples of this model function in this fashion), or at least 2 at random can be expected to...).  At my request, he then hooked up a SP B1 and did the same test.  From what I saw and heard, I wish I'd bought that one, but they weren't different enough for me to press the point (like ask for an exchange/replacement).  Also, I like the fact that the Apex has 3 polar patterns, and I think at this point I'll just work with it and learn how to get the most out of it.

Next time I buy a condenser mic, I'll be more methodical about it, and of course I'll know a bit more what to expect.