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[bobkatz]

Level wrote on Thu, 14 April 2005 23:04

It is a joke to think they prefer the ugly..they (kids like under 20) have never heard the differnce to appreciate what it could have been. Once they are exposed..they really respond.

It amazes me and pleases me when I discover someone in their 20's who's into old vinyl...   I hope I'm around and still making records in 10 years, it will be interesting to see whether the pop-rock-whatever field is still as fucked up as it is today.

I have a near-mint-condition copy of Simon and Garfunkel's Bookends and a very good vinyl reproduction system. It is a wakeup call how dynamic that LP is compared to comparable pop today on CD.

BK

[zboy2854]

It's funny, I have Pink Floyd, the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, etc. on my iPod along with Coldplay, Green Day, etc., and the old stuff doesn't pale at all next to the new stuff, in fact just the opposite.

All that aside, I realized what we need to have happen to solve this volume wars problem.  We need stereo manufacturers to build units where you set your volume where you want it, then the unit automatically adjusts the volume based on the detected RMS levels of the currently playing program material.  Not unlike the car stereos that turn up the music when your vehicle speed increases to compensate for road noise.  

[lucey]

Bob I like some records to be slammin loud.  I use analog and digital limiting as long as it adds power more than unmusical distortions.  A guitar player by rights, I liken the sound to tube/transformer compression on a dimed amp, which can be beautiful and powerful if the amp and tubes and speaker are all in harmony.   Some styles call for this, and it can be done.

Then again I like fidelity and punch at a high standard so I don't clip converters or use one box to get levels.

The mix for me is becoming less an issue.  A record can be made very loud if my chain is right and if it's dont with tact.  Yet without hearing the mix how could anyone say more?  I'm using some new gear that's helping and I've made masters louder than one of Sterlings big dogs.  Skipping eq tates, mine are wider and still have movement.  More actually, with more level.

If you want a sample just FTP the file, or 1/2 of the file to be safe.   If you hear another's 'acceptably limited' work and decide it's sonically not where you'd want to go, then you learn something useful.

[ted nightshade]

lucey wrote on Fri, 15 April 2005 08:59

Bob I like some records to be slammin loud.  I use analog and digital limiting as long as it adds power more than unmusical distortions.  A guitar player by rights, I liken the sound to tube/transformer compression on a dimed amp, which can be beautiful and powerful if the amp and tubes and speaker are all in harmony.   Some styles call for this, and it can be done.

Seems to me like it might sound good over your nice mastering system, but cause cheap consumer electronics to cough out all kinds of very unmusical distortions. A dimed tube guitar amp is a nice thing, a dimed tube guitar amp through a dimed car stereo amp is not nearly so nice of a thing. Takes a lot of cheap beer to endure that-

sometimes I forget we're in the beer-selling business! Or was that playing live? I get so confused...

[lucey]

ted nightshade wrote on Fri, 15 April 2005 17:55

Seems to me like it might sound good over your nice mastering system, but cause cheap consumer electronics to cough out all kinds of very unmusical distortions. A dimed tube guitar amp is a nice thing, a dimed tube guitar amp through a dimed car stereo amp is not nearly so nice of a thing. Takes a lot of cheap beer to endure that-

I'm not saying I actually dime the speakers Ted ... oh no!  I'm saying the slightly pushed sound of limiting can have that tube amp kind of punch.

As far as speakers and distortion, actually the opposite is true.  The nicer speakers reveal more of the distortions.  So if we're conservative, most people hear nothing.  If we push a little, most people hear even less, if we go too far, it sounds shitty, distorted and small - like those other fellas work.

I also use Auratones, and often drive to the Post Office while reviewing  ... and if it's wrong ... I drive home.   So there's a punishment system in effect!

[Level]

I do beleve the drive to the post office is a definitive moment of moments. Seldom do I need to turn back..it has happened...the one head edit that got away..Some machines start 16 frames in...got to watch for it. 3 to 7 is usually ok..but everything is relative.

[Andy Simpson]

I think the point Ted was making was that the nice dimed guitar sound is not nice when clipped through consumer converters.....ie. even if _you_ get it perfectly clean at -5dBrms, the consumer converters will make it sound shitty because of their lack of headroom. ....just to clarify Ted's point.....respectfully and obviously I know you all know this.



Andy