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[Zilla]

Scott Helmke wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 07:33

I've been using a Linux-based setup, and the software tends to be much more on the utilitarian side.

Which Linux audio applications have you found to your liking?

[ted nightshade]

Hi Mr. Extreme, I pointed out early on that what I disagreed with was "recording of any kind". That's different from "the majority of commercial work out there". And it's different from making a living!

Although I do see an increasing market for the old ways of doing things, especially in bluegrass. And it's far from unheard of for jazz or classical to make the music there in the room. Some folks actually do make a living of sorts doing jazz or classical or bluegrass!

Still, even the big pop Nashville lotsa tracks stuff really just needs a good recorder and a mixing board. Not everything needs manipulated DAW style.

I really wonder how long the DAW will last. Most of us need to record, need to mix, need to apply processing, but the market for outboard ain't hurting exactly, including mixing. You can even get an outboard recorder like tape or a RADAR or a Genex and eventually the DAW becomes it's own optional piece of outboard.

[Extreme Mixing]

Ted,

I get what you're saying and agree with most of it.  But just because you own a DAW doesn't mean that you have to beat detective the drums.  One doesn't have to AutoTune every vocal.  Not every tune needs fader rides and compression.  But Pro Tools might just make a great two track recorder, too.  Half of the skill of mixing is in knowing when to make all the lights come on and when to leave them off. in the same way that space in music can be as powerful as full and lush.  No argument there from me.

But when I walk into a room, I think it's important that I know how to operate the equipment in the same way you expect an airline pilot to have a good understanding of how to fly the plane.  I know how to operate Pro Tools, and Digital Performer and Logic well enough that I don't even have to pollute my mind with the details of how the system works.  That way I can focus on the music and not the mouse or the screen.  That's why people call me.  They know that when I leave, they will have something that they can turn in to the lable, or the network, or the Director that will sound good.  I've been doing this for 20 years, so I also know how to use microphones, a tape recorder, and a mixing console.

I don't get your reasoning when you wonder how long the DAW will last.  Things that are more powerful, cost effective, and work reliably don't usually fall by the wayside in the name of progress.  They tend to improve and progress in response to the needs and desires of those who use them.  Hopefully, there will always be horses, but I don't really want to ride one into Hollywood to work.

By the way, I hope you don't take me for an Extreme type of a guy.  I named my studio Extreme Mixing, because when I started it by buying Pro Tools 5 years ago, it seemed like a pretty extreme--like extreme skiing, or mororcycle racing--way to work.  I didn't really know if it could be done when I started down this road.  Turns out it was just another way to accomplish the same thing I had already been doing for over a decade.

Steve

[Phil]

 

[Extreme Mixing]

Phil wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 15:24

Extreme Mixing wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 14:38 Hopefully, there will always be horses, but I don't really want to ride one into Hollywood to work. Hmm...don't know, you might get there faster, especially after they start tearing up the 101/405 interchange. Phil

You're right.  Maybe I spoke too soon.

Steve

[ted nightshade]

How long the DAW will last- could be a really lasting paradigm, could not. We may keep using typewriter keyboards (legacy, for sure- never thought I'd get this good at typing!) or we may not. Here's hoping whatever catches on is for the best this time.

[electrical]

Extreme Mixing wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 23:07

I notice you said "almost exclusively".  That sounds like almost a virgin.  What does that mean?

We don't own any digital mutitrack recording equipment, and sessions here are all-analog. Occasionally, a freelance engineer will bring his Pro Tools rig here, or we have to rent one for someone. Normal, day-to-day recording is all analog here. Personally, I have never made a record on a DAW, and I can't imagine a reason to ever do so.

Quote:

It means that you use it when you need it, or want it.  So that means you use it, right?

No, but I understand how you might feel compelled to interpret it that way. DAWs could all disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't affect me one jot.

Quote:

Enough said.

As if we could end it that easily.

Quote:

This is still a technology driven business and if one is unwilling to learn new methods, he will soon be left behind.

Thank God I've been left behind. All the studios trying to keep up-to-date have all gone broke. I'm thrilled to be left behind, if the race is toward oblivion.

Quote:

There is a book you should read.  It's called the Zax, by Dr. Suess.

As much as I like Mr. Geisel's drawings, I'll take my own experience at face value. Trying to do what everyone else does will get you to their midst, at best, or just behind them. That's all. If you apply yourself to that which you understand intimately and uniquely, you will be able to accomplish things that are uniquely yours, and that will become valuable to other people.

I say draw your own informed conclusions about what you can do best, and then wallow in it. Fuck everybody else. They don't have to take responsibility for your decisions. You do, so make sure you're proud of every second.

[David Schober]

electrical wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 10:27

Personally, I have never made a record on a DAW, and I can't imagine a reason to ever do so.

But then....

Quote:

I say draw your own informed conclusions about what you can do best, and then wallow in it.

Seems to me Steve, while you may be very competent to discuss matters of analog, you views on DAW aren't quite to the level of informed.  Some of us who have worked in both however, are.  Seems to me one might want to thorougly try a technology before declaring their negative views on it.

[ted nightshade]

electrical wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 08:27

Trying to do what everyone else does will get you to their midst, at best, or just behind them. That's all. If you apply yourself to that which you understand intimately and uniquely, you will be able to accomplish things that are uniquely yours, and that will become valuable to other people. I say draw your own informed conclusions about what you can do best, and then wallow in it.

Personally, I'm betting my life on this approach. Wish me luck!

I can just tell there are those who can do easily and more or less naturally what I would have to force myself uphill the whole way to do at all. They're bound to beat me at it. Competing directly with them would be too slow a suicide to entice me very much.

If DAWs are just your thing and light you up like a christmas tree, by all means DAW! But for some of us, something else resonates enough to get us eating up 14 hour days and loving it.

[Extreme Mixing]

I have no problem with that, and I wish you well, Ted.  Same for Steve Albini.  He has been doing this for a long time and he is very clear on what he likes and why he likes it.  Same for me.  I made my choice and I'm happy with how it's going.  So we all just have to just step aside and keep going our own directions, so we don't end up like those two stubborn Zax in the story.  "I'm a north going Zax and I always go north, so get out of my way and let me go forth..."  Sorry, I probably read that book 400 times to my kids.  I memorized several of them.

It is odd that you like the Masterlink.  That opens up a window of possibility that the rest of us aren't completely crazy, doesn't it?

Steve

[ted nightshade]

[quote title=Extreme Mixing wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 19:44]
It is odd that you like the Masterlink.  That opens up a window of possibility that the rest of us aren't completely crazy, doesn't it?

Steve [/quote

I have some holes to fill in my Dr. Seuss... well worth doing.

I like the Masterlink as a simple standalone master recorder. The DSP is from hell. But you can back things up readily. I'd like a more robust solution, like a mini-RADAR or something. I don't think the new Tascam thing is it, so far.

[Don S]

I have to agree with much of what was said. I've been auditioning DAWs for about a year now. Other than SAW studio and Pyramix, I cannot find a low cost program that simply records audio. No pictures of instruments! Something about seeing a graphic of a drum set on a track doesn't sit well in a professional situation. BTW - I don't consider either of these programs inexpensive. I'm also finding the ones that 'simply record" have a huge learning curve! (after years of PT)

Don

[lofi]

when I replaced tape (not high end btw) with adats I wasn't happy. then I replaced adats with cool edit pro (now adobe audition) and I work fast and simple as in tape days - record, overdub and mix. it is a simple multitracker/editor of my choice but I don't do midi.

and if you god forbid want to edit something in AA you can do  it in a second.

(but unfortunately those projects I've done on tape long time ago still sound more fun than what I am doing today   )

today sounds "modern", yesterday sounded "good"  

[pipelineaudio]

"I'm also finding the ones that 'simply record" have a huge learning curve! (after years of PT)
"

then you certainly havent tried vegas

[Chrunchy]

[quote title=ted nightshade wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 15:38]

Extreme Mixing wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 06:42

I disagree COMPLETELY. Why? Because you say "in any form." DAWs are all about manipulation of sounds. If you just want to capture it right and play it back, you don't need to manipulate anything. I don't, anyway. I do mostly live to 2 track, I don't even need to mix anything unless I do something multitrack.

Ok..the guy shouldnt have said any form. But come on.. 2 track is your nitch..but how many other people? I dont have 1 cd in my house that is a 2 track. I think my mother has an old Abe Lincoln jam though