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Author Topic: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job  (Read 10694 times)

rnicklaus

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2005, 12:16:17 PM »

jackthebear wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 08:36

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 00:12




I would love to be educated on real stories (names withheld) where an artist or producer was vetoed on mastering levels.




How much time you got Randy?

Cheers,


Let's hear it.
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R.N.

mcsnare

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2005, 12:58:23 PM »

I'll add another one to the list: Maroon 5. I bought it the other day and when I put it on I was actually embarassed for Matt Wallace. I can't say for sure, but I seriously doubt he delivered the mixes heavily distorting on every beat. Shameful. I wonder who approved the massacre.
Dave McNair

jimmyjazz

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2005, 01:38:54 PM »

That Maroon 5 disc has been unfortunately squashed, and it's too bad, because those guys seem to be pretty capable songwriters as well as being decent musicians.
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jackthebear

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2005, 05:38:40 PM »

Level wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 01:59



Brad, do add Herb Powers to your list. I wish he would come here and explain himself.


I don't think Herb is deserving of such a dubious honour and besides Bill, Herb is moving (or maybe already is) in your state. Perhaps you can look him up and get it straight from the horse's mouth. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.

I'd love to see what you would do if the mooks put the squeeze on just like they would have on Herb.

Cheers,

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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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jackthebear

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2005, 05:55:30 PM »

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 02:16

jackthebear wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 08:36

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 00:12




I would love to be educated on real stories (names withheld) where an artist or producer was vetoed on mastering levels.




How much time you got Randy?

Cheers,


Let's hear it.


OK.....most recent (in fact yesterday) An LA mix engineer / producer is working on a priority act for a major. HE wants to use a contributor on this forum. THEY want to use a Sterling ME. Needless to say the producer is LIVID Mad

Now the mastering was appartently a decision that was going to be left to the producer. Because the producer's choice of ME is not known for making LOUD records, the mook has vitoed the producer.

I really want to tell you names but I the conversation was a confidential one.

Randy there are plenty more but I suppose without naming names they may as well be considered rumour and innuendo.

On this island mooks get all proirity stuff done in the US without any consultation and it has to be by a name ME and LOUD. Why? Because that's the trend in the US.
No other reason.

While in Rome......
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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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Level

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2005, 06:18:16 PM »

JTB Wrote:


Quote:

I'd love to see what you would do if the mooks put the squeeze on just like they would have on Herb


I know what I would do...and I have done it more than once.

I would pass the job off, take my consultant fee and let some other asshole crush it. I am not going to play that sick game.
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rnicklaus

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2005, 06:28:35 PM »

jackthebear wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 14:55

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 02:16

jackthebear wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 08:36

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 00:12




I would love to be educated on real stories (names withheld) where an artist or producer was vetoed on mastering levels.




How much time you got Randy?

Cheers,


Let's hear it.


OK.....most recent (in fact yesterday) An LA mix engineer / producer is working on a priority act for a major. HE wants to use a contributor on this forum. THEY want to use a Sterling ME. Needless to say the producer is LIVID Mad

Now the mastering was appartently a decision that was going to be left to the producer. Because the producer's choice of ME is not known for making LOUD records, the mook has vitoed the producer.

I really want to tell you names but I the conversation was a confidential one.

Randy there are plenty more but I suppose without naming names they may as well be considered rumour and innuendo.

On this island mooks get all proirity stuff done in the US without any consultation and it has to be by a name ME and LOUD. Why? Because that's the trend in the US.
No other reason.

While in Rome......


The post I mentioned was rumour started with the first line by the person who posting saying it was rumour.

I never said I didn't believe people were asking for louder masters I said I had never witnessed it personally.

Also I may add that the record biz is full of people who run to the "famous people" producers, mixers, MEs, whatever....

Also my post asked to NOT name names.
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jackthebear

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2005, 06:44:38 PM »

R.Nicklaus wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 08:28


The post I mentioned was rumour started with the first line by the person who posting saying it was rumour.

I never said I didn't believe people were asking for louder masters I said I had never witnessed it personally.

Also I may add that the record biz is full of people who run to the "famous people" producers, mixers, MEs, whatever....

Also my post asked to NOT name names.


Fair call Randy. Without names however anyone could potentially fabricate their story. You are lucky you haven't witnessed what is the norm here especially when it comes to the majors. The indies for the most part are influenced by the big boys. Even if you convince them that backing off is the beter way, they still want to feel that they are in the ballpark and that Joe Suburban won't have to turn his volume clocwise when their cd comes up in the changer.

It's a constant battle. But hey it beats tossing out drunkards from the pub for a livin'.

Cheers,
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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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Arf! Mastering

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2005, 08:09:48 PM »

I know the scenario that Randy describes first hand many times over.  Recently I get call from a producer to book a single.  He says the label (a major) will call with a PO.   The ASSISTANT (!) a&r guy calls to give the PO number and when I give my company name he says "Wait, this isn't Sterling?"  "No." I say.  He replies "I'll call you back."   Less than 5 minutes later he calls to cancel the booking.  I guess he smelled something wrong (i.e. it wasn't Sterling)and covered his butt by reporting to his boss who decided to pull the job because, simply, it wasn't Sterling.   Now, to address Jack The Bear's note - that the jobs go to the famous guys who make it loud - no - they go to the famous guys because they're famous.   The label people don't know who makes it loud and who doesn't.  But the do know who the top three houses are. The excessive level trap we are now in I firmly believe was the creation and fault of top mastering pros and no one else.

As to the single - it was mastered by one of the seconds at Sterling, not one of the guys who deservedly made the place famous.  
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jackthebear

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2005, 09:00:08 PM »

AlanS wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 10:09

 Now, to address Jack The Bear's note - that the jobs go to the famous guys who make it loud - no - they go to the famous guys because they're famous.  


Hey Alan,

Famous and loud go hand in hand these days.....

Cheers,
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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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jackthebear

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2005, 09:04:39 PM »

Level wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 08:18

JTB Wrote:


Quote:

I'd love to see what you would do if the mooks put the squeeze on just like they would have on Herb


I know what I would do...and I have done it more than once.

I would pass the job off, take my consultant fee and let some other asshole crush it. I am not going to play that sick game.


So now you've resorted to calling these guys &#*holes? For someone who's been calling Darius and Michael F children in previous retorts you are sure showing your class Booby.

Cheers,
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Tony "Jack the Bear" Mantz
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lucey

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2005, 10:15:47 PM »

Garrett H wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 09:14


The next day Marcussen called the producer.  He was gushing with excitement about the prospect of mastering an album vs. crushing it.  Needless to say, Marcussen's team got the CD and did a nice job.


Korn "Issues" and Rage "Battle ..." were produced and mastered by the same team ... and they sound very similar.  Was the producer or ME resposible?

With Audioslave, Meller was chosen over a host of others by Mr. Rubin ... so is it Vlados fault that the choruses are over the top?  Did he know what was needed to win the job or just go overboard on his own and it was liked?

The ACDC Back in BLack remaster by Marino ... who made the call to make it so dark and so limited?

Bowie 'Reality' and Chili Peppers 'Californication' ... who ordered these up, when these ESTABLISHED artists did not need RMS to get anyones attention?

Is fear in charge of everything?



After spinning this around I have no idea who is most afraid, but I do know that fear is not an energy that sells anything except horror flicks.  Yet on the big stage the loudness fear is real.  It's technically naive, commercially counterproductive and musically sad but a serious reality where reasonable men assume that big money is riding on the levels being -7, not -9, or heaven forbid -11 rms.

Does anyone REALLY mind turning up a knob by 1/32nd enough to justify trashing the hard work of talented players and engineers.    Are most of the A+R folks really that way? Do they want to sell records or play power games?



Maybe it's all the digital volume buttons that are responsible?  A knob turn is fine ... but pushing the UP button is hard work  Rolling Eyes
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Brian Lucey
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bblackwood

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2005, 10:18:38 PM »

Well, though I can't name names (in this case), I do know of a band that had to have Marc*ssen do 6 versions before the level was low enough. Not rumor...
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Brad Blackwood
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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2005, 10:23:30 PM »

Level wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 17:18

I would pass the job off, take my consultant fee and let some other asshole crush it. I am not going to play that sick game.

Yeah, God forbid you ever please the client if that's what they request...
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Brad Blackwood
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Arf! Mastering

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Re: Velvet Revolver "Contraband" Mastering Job
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2005, 10:30:06 PM »

I think there are two elephants in this room.  The major labels do not see that they have locked themselves into destroying their own product.  And audio engineers don't see that the rest of the world does not think it sounds bad.  What we have is a loose-loose situation.    If the big labels gave even the slightest damn how their records sounded they could stop the smashing in a second.
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“A working class hero is something to be,
Keep you doped with religion and sex and T.V.”
John Lennon

"Large signals can actually be counterproductive.  If I scream at you over the phone, you don’t hear me better. If I shine a bright light in your eyes, you don’t see better.”
Dr. C.T. Rubin, biomechanical engineer
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