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Author Topic: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?  (Read 4517 times)

ALLEN WRENCH

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SOULUTION Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2005, 11:29:49 pm »

• SOULUTION! •  SOULUTION! • SOULUTION! • SOULUTION! •

OK guys here’s the solution to my guitar and bass recording situation… even though the guitar had been intonated, the guitar played various cords SLIGHTLY ‘out of tune’.

The BOTTOM LINE… I should’ve ignored the tuner and LISTENED to the guitar… and lowered my pick-ups!  

This was a bit confusing… Once hearing the guitar out of tune, I instructed my guitarist to retune… doing so to all open strings.  Once the tuner gave the thumbs up I would then commence to recording.

After monitoring the recorded tracks… something was still out of tune… the guitarist checks his tuning, which was fine. The next culprit HAD to be my bass.  I rechecked the intonation there and it was fine, so I re-recorded my bass tracks.

After quite a while I realized the tuning problem with the guitar.  I had to get the bass to work with THIS guitar in particular because its tone had been the best for this particular song.  And believe me, I tried about 10 other guitars… I began feeling like I was in the Mixerman Diaries.  I ended up tuning the bass regionally to the guitar (fretted ‘D’ on the ‘A’ string, and fretted ‘A’ on the low ‘E’ string) and everything turned out fine.

AS FAR AS THE SINGLE NOTE
sounding out of tune with itself… dropping the neck and middle position pick-ups helped this out a ton.  I like the Strat tones sometimes, but what an unruly device!

The big winners with this thread where:
maxdimario and Poyser for both scoring on the annoying effect of the pick-ups being too close to the strings.  Poyser gets extra credit for also confirming this as an 'ocassional' Fender problem.

And also to LEVEL for suggesting to IGNOR THE TUNER!

Thanks for all the help guys!


- ALLEN WRENCH
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arconaut

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2005, 07:24:45 am »

Hi folks,

I realize this has been resolved, but I just thought I'd add that a "wolf tone" occurs when the inherent fundamental resonance of an instrument is "activated" by that frequency being played on the instrument. It's sort of like a coupled oscillator.

Just as a room has "modes" based on its dimensions, so too do instruments. Usually, a well built instrument's resonance will be below the range of the notes it plays, but this problem does happen often with cellos and acoustic basses.

When a player hits that magic note that causes the instrument to resonate, the result is a strange, warbly, beating tone. Sometimes it can be elusive - for example, I have a violin which has a wolf tone (which is unusual) that happens when I play B-flat, but actually only when I play the b-flat above middle-C on the G string, which is not that often. It is a flaw in the instrument and it lowers the value.

You can try to tame the problem by using different strings, and sometimes putting a mute or damper on the string on the non-playing side of the brige can help (you have to experiment to  find a position that works).

For future reference...

ns
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Eric Rudd

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2005, 09:01:24 am »

arconaut wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 12:24

Hi folks,

I realize this has been resolved, but I just thought I'd add that a "wolf tone" occurs when the inherent fundamental resonance of an instrument is "activated" by that frequency being played on the instrument. It's sort of like a coupled oscillator.


For future reference...

ns


Thanks for the additional info. Nice to know.

Eric
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric Rudd
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For an engineering discography, please see www.allmusic.com
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Eric Rudd

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2005, 09:02:43 am »

arconaut wrote on Thu, 07 April 2005 12:24

Hi folks,

I realize this has been resolved, but I just thought I'd add that a "wolf tone" occurs when the inherent fundamental resonance of an instrument is "activated" by that frequency being played on the instrument. It's sort of like a coupled oscillator.


For future reference...

ns


Thanks for the additional info. Nice to know.

Eric
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric Rudd
efrudd@gmail.com
For an engineering discography, please see www.allmusic.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PP

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2005, 02:56:31 pm »

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arconaut

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2005, 05:24:13 pm »

Hey Poyser,

Believe me, that's been done. Actually, the guy who sold it to me is a reputable violin maker/repair person and he acknowledged the problem when he sold it to me. Otherwise, it is a wonderful instrument, though it's not my main axe anyway, since I acquired something better a few years after that (got me through college, though).

Noah
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PP

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2005, 03:05:20 pm »

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Radd 47

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2005, 06:29:49 pm »

Nobody mentioned the guitar itself.

Ever hear a really crappy Sears Silvertone guitar?
Try to get one good note out of it. Lowering the pickups won't work. A guitar is just like a violin, it's made out of wood, it resonantes, and some sound better than others.
I had a guitar that sounded bad, turned out the whole neck had cracks in it. Found this out after the headstock got snapped off. Took the neck apart to find garbage wood. The internal cracks were not visible from the outside. No wonder it sounded like crap and kept drifting out of tune. I always wonderd if that 2 stamped on the pegboard ment "second". Now I know.


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arconaut

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2005, 08:12:18 pm »

Radd 47 wrote:
A guitar is just like a violin...

Yeah, but a guitar burns longer!  Very Happy
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PP

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2005, 02:32:53 am »

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con_ritmo

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Re: Anyone ever had this guitar / tuning problem?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2005, 06:18:41 am »

because a guitar's notes are fixed due to the frets...they are always out of tune with themselves in respect to voice leading and chords and stuff.  when i pay attention to it...(especially when i play one) it drives me completely nuts...infinitely more so than a piano...

and yes, using a tuner just makes it even worse.
of course a single note will be out of tune with itself if all the strings aren't precisely in tune with one another...
using a tuner won't make them preceisely in tune...

no self-respecting string player uses a tuner and you certainly can't even come remotely close to tuning a piano properly using one...

regarding the wolf tones on the violin...well you can tame it by playing the darn note every day...not only will that help but  you'll also discover a way to bow and vibrato it so that it will be passable.  you could also put your shoulder into the body to supress the vibration...

in any case, if there's going to be a wolf on the violin, yeah it'll be up there on the g.  

in terms of construction...the biggest difference between a guitar and a violin...no not the f-holes, not the sound post, etc.

guitar = flat top and bottom... violin = arched...
it makes the construction of the violin monumentally more challenging.


regarding the guitarist-> just because you can mix-and-match different gauges together doesn't mean you should...
in the end he should just use one set....

anyways...

Very Happy
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