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[Yannick Willox]

Roland Storch wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 08:33

The differencies with cables are smaller than for example with AD/DA converter. Is there a common agreement which converter is the best one? No. But everybody agrees converters are different. Do we really have to know which cable is the best? Hmm!

We recently did a converter comparison/test. One or two models sounded quite different (the second one on some material only). The rest had a price range between 1x and 10x per channel. The comparison could fool anyone IMO. This could explain why there is no common agreement about the best converter.

Our conclusion was cable (interconnect) differences are at least of the same magnitude. I'm quite sure we could pick out different cables, but I would doubt I would be able to recognise the AD we ended up buying against another contender. Therefore I suspect a really 'highend' mic cable could make quite a difference. Come one, the really really good cables in this thread (Sommercable, Gotham) are only 1.2-1.5 euro/m.

My 150 euro/m interconnects are WAY better than standard mic cable (as interconnect). I'm not talking about some esoteric overpriced piece of wire here, but solid core silver that is sitting in almost all 747 airplanes (why ?).

Anyone saying that cables tests are ridiculous, but feels great because he chose the - by far - best sounding AD converter should reconsider.
Urgently.

[Plush]

May I relay the results of a real test in situ?

Recently we were assigned to make a recording of an
a capella choral group at a downtown Chicago cathedral.
The church is notorious for being the focal point for very strong
and audible RF interferance.

Our strategy to avoid picking up the RF has developed over several years working in this location. It is to use GAC3 with shield tied to the xlr and employ mic amps with large transformers to block the RF.

Recording was made and all RF was silenced.

The point is that THIS IS a test of mic cable! Good sound was always expected and known but the reason this cable was relied on is because it has properly engineered interferance rejection.
This is sometimes just as important as excellent audio quality.
The cable behaved just as expected!

If the sound conveyed by the cable to the recording machine is the same as the sound heard when sitting in front of the choral group; and priniples of physics apply, whey do we need more tests?

The tests have already been done and ARE BEING DONE each day as each of us plies our craft.


 
 

[Gunnar Hellquist]

Yannick Willox wrote on Wed, 27 April 2005 16:18

I'm not talking about some esoteric overpriced piece of wire here, but solid core silver that is sitting in almost all 747 airplanes (why ?).

Yannick, I am no expert, but I think you might have been mislead here. Could you tell me source that says that "almost all 747 airplanes" has "solid core silver" cables?

I will check with my friend who is a certified airplane mechanic, although I think he is not current on the 747. This would of course be second hand experience or hearsay, which I know Klaus has a very specific opinion about in a sticky for this forum.

I think it is very important to keep a clear head in these discussion.

Gunnar

[Roland Storch]

Regardless of silver cables, the new Airbus A380 is better, bigger and more economical. It had its first flight today.

Airbus introduced the fly-by-wire technology long ago - even without silver cables.  
http://www.airbus.com/product/a380_backgrounder.asp

If the old 747 has really silver cables on certain parts than I am shure it is because of mechanical characterisics like durability to withstand vibrations.

For good vibrations copper is good enough.  

[Klaus Heyne]

Another random observation regarding the feasibility of a cable test:
Everybody professionally employed to record music or deal with its technical rendering is so damn busy  that these kind of fringe issues fall quickly under the rug:

An inventor had sent me a "new technology" guitar cable a month ago, with a long handwritten note, lovingly composed and executed.

Have I had time to sit down and evaluate this cable in the manner the gentleman deserved? Have I tried it on several amps, with several volume settings, clean, distorted, several guitars, different pick up topologies?

No. I quickly plugged the cable in before a recent gig, decided that it was not thrilling me enough to take it to the gig, packed my trusted Belden rubber cable instead, and have not spent any time since with the new cable to analyze its merits or lack of.

[3D Audio]

This is far too true, far too often.

Even equipment reviewers are guilty of such "dismissal" at times.

[wwittman]

Is that bad though?

Last year, on someone's suggestion, I replaced all the interconnect guitar leads in my rack as an experiment.
I did  this very UNscientifically.

The rack consists of a Wireless receiver (from the bass guitar transmitters) which then goes through a 1 foot 1/4" to 1/4" phone lead to a booster pedal to another 1 foot lead to an A/B switch.
The switch A side goes by way of another 1 foot lead to a SansAmp Bass Driver DI box which has its uneffected parallel output wired by way of 2" of wire to a front panel 1/4" jack.
From that jack, I use a 3 foot lead to the amp.
So there are three 1 footers and 1 3 foot lead.

(B side of the switch goes to a tuner and is irrelevant as no one hears it)

I did this before a soundcheck on stage, in a theatre.
I listened to the bass... I switched the four leads to Evidence Audio cables, and I listened again.
I felt it instantly sounded a lot better.
Bigger and fuller and more solid sounding.
Clearer.

I said nothing to anyone else.
But immediately after soundcheck, our FOH engineer came up and said he didn't know why, but "for some reason" the bass just sounded really good today.

I didn't need to spend hours comparing or trying different guitars or amps.
It sounded better immediately or it didn't.
In this case it did.

And they are a lot less expensive than that $2000 Allessandro version!

[danickstr]

Klaus wrote:

"I am skeptical: Cable differences are subtle. I doubt audible impressions of a single use cable application would survive the transfer to a commercially duplicated 16 bit/44.1khz CD intact."


So I wonder how many "applications" it takes for a cable's unique sonics to be realized on a 16 bit 44.1 CD?  Since that is where audio ends up these days for the greater part.  I know it sounds like I am hinting at being a naysayer, but this is more of a question of the practicality of these tests to their ultimate application, bringing music to people through digital mediums, and a perfectly legimate question of application.

Respectfully submitted

Nick Dellos

[Bob Olhsson]

danickstr wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 21:59

... this is more of a question of the practicality of these tests to their ultimate application, bringing music to people through digital mediums, and a perfectly legimate question of application...

If a cable sounds better to a musician or engineer and this leads to a better, more confidant performance or mix, there is no question that it will make a significant difference in a ring tone!

[ted nightshade]

I wonder about connections of any kind vs. hardwired. I have my doubts about connections. Thoughts?

[danickstr]

would there be any merit in rewiring the internal connectors of a unit from the circuit board to the XLR output/input?

[Klaus Heyne]

danickstr wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 19:59

Klaus wrote: "I am skeptical: Cable differences are subtle. I doubt audible impressions of a single use cable application would survive the transfer to a commercially duplicated 16 bit/44.1khz CD intact." So I wonder how many "applications" it takes for a cable's unique sonics to be realized on a 16 bit 44.1 CD?  Since that is where audio ends up these days for the greater part.

A good question.
My hunch is that the cumulative effect of using "good" or "bad" cables (cumulative as in: customary recording of music) would be audible.

I am not sure whether some characteristics of the cable recorded with just one sound source would survive ( like on one of Lynn Fuston's comparison CDs), but am open to be convinced otherwise, once such test has been set up.

[doughiggins]

Has anyone yet attempted any more comparisons outside of quite popular companies such as belden, mogami, gotham, canare.

Any Zaolla or Cardas users?

It's quite amazing at how fast some engineers dismiss cable differences in sonics without actually doing a comparison themselves.  

I've noticed a sonic difference in both mic and line level applications between Belden 1800 series and Mogami AES/EBU (Single pair), even though they are of similar spec.
 
Are there any more reasonable priced silver based solid core products that anyone is aware of.  

Have there been any solid core verse stranded comparisons whether it be copper or silver, scientific or not.  

[Yannick Willox]

I'm still waiting for my batch of Italian solid core copper mic cables (Reference Laboratory).

As it as, I have solid core silver cables between DAC1 and Bryston 3Bsst. To the loudspeakers it is solid core copper. Both are the same brand, although the silver wire is fabricated elsewhere.

Nothing scientific, but for me it is clear that tonally, and certainly in the time domain they are superior to anything else I've used - with this I mean what I hear is closer to the real sound I heard during soundcheck, in the concert hall.
I find them reasonably priced, at the time 200 euro for a stereo pair of silver interconnects, 450 euro for 2x 3m loudspeaker cable).

I'll post as soon as I know anything more about those mic cables - I don't even have the price yet, although I'm quite sure they are under 6 euro/m.

Did anyone else notice that mic cables are either less than 2.5 euro/m, or MORE than 1000 euro/m ? With other cables there seems to exist something in between basic stuff and snake oil, not so with mic cables ...

[Soundog]

doughiggins wrote on Wed, 01 March 2006 22:20

Has anyone yet attempted any more comparisons outside of quite popular companies such as belden, mogami, gotham, canare. Any Zaolla or Cardas users?

Doug,

Should you be interested, I posted some old mp3's here :

 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=26976&page= 3&highlight=zaolla

If nothing else, you will probably enjoy the gladiatorial banter that so characterises gearslutz and which I find so amusing. The board might more aptly be named "Insultz".