R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!  (Read 29488 times)

jwhynot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2005, 11:35:38 am »

Hey Ross you got in there first...!
JW
Logged
one of both the most and least successful producers of ALL TIME!

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2005, 11:50:25 am »

Ross, I don't mind that somebody is getting work that I'm not, if I really think they are good.  I'll never argue with somebody who wants Bob Clearmountain or Brendan O'Brien to mix something, even though they already get a shitload of work.  It just drives me nuts when A&R people decide for whatever reason that 'if so-and-so mixes this, it will be a hit single,' like it's an empirical formula or something.  It especially pisses me off when the emperor's new clothes is revered like some fucking jedi master.  I realize that it makes me sound bitter or petty, but I'm sorry ... it's one thing to know your good and be confident bordering on cocky, but can you imagine Al Schmitt taking himself that seriously?

BTW, next time you drive by Hollywood and Vine, there is a billboard for some Mexican radio station with JJP's doppleganger on it.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Otitis Media

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 564
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2005, 12:03:10 pm »

J.J. wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 11:50

billboard with JJP's doppleganger on it.


I thought you couldn't show your doppelganger in public? Shocked  


only in LA......

Razz
Logged
Dan Roth
Hired Gun

compasspnt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16266
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2005, 12:04:02 pm »

Ross is certainly correct in that we should not "diss" anyone publicly...especially those who indeed keep getting work, for whatever reason.  As moderator, I have almost stopped this thread a couple of times already.  BUT I haven't stopped it as yet, and indeed some people do deserve "getting it" more than others do.

But please let's not get too personally abusive here.

Terry
Logged

wwittman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7712
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2005, 12:42:19 pm »

I also think this idea of the "hit mixer" (MIXER!!???) is ridiculous.. well made records barely need mixers, let alone "hit" mixers.

but it's not personal for me.
We may all like or dislike one person's work or another's.
That's only taste.

I've liked some and disliked some records from all of those guys.
And I've had experience where my records have been mixed by guys whose work I really respect and I've still, sometimes, been disappointed.
And sometimes it's been brilliant.

No doubt I've mixed records that some people think sound crappy.
(insert your snide comment here__________)

My strong reaction isn't about who I think is mostly good or mostly not that good.
It's more about the HYPE involved.

The implicit "I've got secret techniques" or "magic gear" that make my mixes a hit.

One of the reasons so many people don't often begrudge Bob Clearmountain his success is because he's so low hype.
He just sort of shrugs and says "I do what I do".
That's very much to his credit.
He's selling his TALENT, not his personna or his gear or his song-and-dance in any other way.



anyway...
why is it that magazines SO love numbers on their covers?
It's never  "things to do to look younger",
it's ALWAYS  "7 tricks to looking younger"


In the 5 things that will ruin your mix article, there's one I take strong exception to.
It's the idea that if you bounce down tracks to make a submix (to save tracks) YOU "NEED" to keep the original tracks separate somewhere.
So, Bohemian Rhapsody... if there weren't the traacks to keep the hundreds of vocals separate so they could rebalanced (by the "hit mixer" {g}) then I guess it must suck.
Cannot possibly be mixed properly.
No wonder it was never a hit.
Oh, wait...

Logged
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...)

Otitis Media

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 564
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2005, 12:49:25 pm »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 12:42


So, Bohemian Rhapsody... if there weren't the traacks to keep the hundreds of vocals separate so they could rebalanced (by the "hit mixer" {g}) then I guess it must suck.
Cannot possibly be mixed properly.
No wonder it was never a hit.
Oh, wait...




Right - they committed to decisions as the production rolled on and it was a hit TWICE!
Logged
Dan Roth
Hired Gun

j.hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3787
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2005, 01:35:19 pm »

i was avoiding this thread like the plague do to a recent circumstance that another moderator and i were dragged through (granted by our own doing.....)

but i couldn't resist adding a thought.

i agree with ross to a certain extent.  belittling a person for merely personal enjoyment reasons is pretty lame.  on the other hand.  we work in a professional industry, that is currently over flooded, where what we do for a living becomes public knowledge (hopefully) in that every one has a chance to hear it.

some get a more chances with bigger releases then others...granted.

BUT, i think it's a bit "PC" (which disgusts me) that we should feel obligated to sit idly by and merely clap for a peer that has seen sucess.  

calling a spade a spade is nothing new.  and honestly, i've gotten so sick and tired of professional audio forums being full to the gills with ambiguous posts with a bunch of tid bits of information always stopping just short of actually being useful.

if people in this thread are familiar with JJP's catalog, and even better....familiar with JJP himself, why can't they post what they think?

every person is entitled to an opinion (just ask fletcher what he thinks of opinions.....)

fact of the matter is, no one here has threatened to stab JJP.  no one here has threated to make sure the man never works another day in the music biz.

i'd even venture to say he probably couldn't care less what we have to say about him.

this is the internet, if you come on here and take anything too seriously that is not my fault.
Logged

jwhynot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 02:40:31 pm »

I know JJP a little.  He's always been 100% a gentleman to me.

I like some, but not all of what he does - when it's good I really enjoy it.

I'm pretty much a shinehead, so I don't feel it's of much value for me to comment on other peoples' hair.  He may not have designed the magazine cover.

Of course people can say whatever they want, others can care as much as they want.  The forum world has as much value as you care to find in it.

From my chair, having a slag at someone makes forums like this less interesting.  They become sour-grapes festivals.  Or should I say, a whine festival.

You think he lucked or hyped his way to a run this long?  You're kidding yourselves.

If it's that easy why isn't everyone doing it?

JW
Logged
one of both the most and least successful producers of ALL TIME!

Fibes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4306
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2005, 03:16:37 pm »

As far as the mixer food chain is concerned my opinion is worthless.

That said, I was once told to never waste time putting someone down when I could spend my time pulling myself up. I don't pay any attention to EQ, it's minions or any of their ads passed off as editorial, I'm saddened that some of you do. Would I like to be asked to do a cover shoot/interview for the mag? Sure, but IMO our work is what we live and die by; not our client list, credits, magazine coverage or standing next to artists at the Scammies while they dish out vaccuous requisite thank yous...

So for now I'll just go back to being too busy to care. All this work without a single blip on the "mix-world" radar.

Gentleman, as you are... but first I have one word for ya'.

Grace


Personally i think the people who are there from the albion of the project do a more informed/genuine job at mixing the art end of things. Unfortunately for some of you the money end speaks much louder, I don't envy y'all, even as a drifting delusional proto-plankton.

Logged
Fibes
-------------------------------------------------
"You can like it, or not like it."
The Studio

  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2005, 03:42:24 pm »

I think those of us who know JJP personally and dislike his work aren't really commenting on what we think of him personally.  I also don't think that any of us are saying that he lucked into his current position.  I observed as he did his first big assignments as a producer / engineer, namely Jellyfish and the Grays.  You can say that I watched him go from that guy to being this iconic figure.  By posting my comments about his work and this ridiculous magazine cover, I'm making two points: I personally think he gets a lot of undue reverance, and he has the exact same pose in every picture I've seen of him.  

My wife wound up in a couple magazines, including Us Weekly's "worst dressed of the year" page.  In one sense it was unfair that she wore a costume to a theme ball that was entirely appropriate for that event, but on its own looked ridiculous and was prone to ridicule.  However, we both knew that she willingly stood in front of the step and repeat board while she got her picture taken, and therefore she kind of ass-ked for it.  (Yes, you could see her entire ass crack in the outfit.)

Just like Dave Navarro sprawling across a console with no shirt on for this very same magazine, anybody engaging in steely eyed, seductive poses for a magazine read by gear geeks of the same sex  is begging for torment, and really needs to be reminded to not take themselves so fucking seriously.  While I'm doing it, I don't mind saying that I equate this particular career like the current loudness wars with CD levels.  Just because the record companies like it and demand it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

As far as glass houses go, I willingly put my head on the chopping block around here.  I post opinions and or examples of my work and leave myself open to all kinds of criticism and corrections.  How can I know what I think might be incorrect if I don't tell you what I think?  I actually invite criticism to an extent, because I think that everybody, even the jedi masters in our presence, should remain teachable, and I, being far from a guy who knows everything about our business, am willing to learn from trial and terror.  I would refuse to ever cloak myself in some mystical audio guru image or let myself be portrayed that way, and anybody who does that, while the real fucking geniuses tend to keep low profiles and humble attitudes, is selling you snake oil.

Oh, and the main reason I posted it?  I thought it was fucking hillarious and couldn't keep it to myself.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

j.hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3787
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2005, 04:11:52 pm »

J.J. wrote on Tue, 22 March 2005 14:42


As far as glass houses go, I willingly put my head on the chopping block around here.  I post opinions and or examples of my work and leave myself open to all kinds of criticism and corrections.  How can I know what I think might be incorrect if I don't tell you what I think?  


which is EXACTLY the reason i started this thread on my forum.

Logged

Ross Hogarth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2512
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2005, 06:45:57 pm »

One of the reasons I took on and said yes to moderating a forum was to make a difference. I felt that the Internet forums had become a place that I had no interest in going to. I chose to say yes to be able to have the power to moderate, and help set the tone for it to be a safe place. A safe place for all opinions even the harsh ones but there is a balance.
I feel that when it crosses an imaginary line I step in.
beautifully perfect as it has been, I have not deleted or modified a post in months and months.
This is due I think to the commitment of us all to be aware of the shortcomings of going past the boundary of good taste
That all being said, I agree with most of what has been said here. I believe that it does not serve anybody to get into a slagfest, kinda regardless.
Leaving ourselves exposed is part of telling the truth, but in a productive way.
My opinion is that when I am complaining I either am complaining about something I am committed to changing and then stop complaining and move on  or just shut up..period ....
this is based in a productive constructive attitude
Logged

The practice of forgiveness is our most important contribution to the healing of the world.

The standard of success in life isn't the things. It isn't the money or the stuff. It is absolutely the amount of joy that you feel.

www.hoaxproductions.com

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2005, 07:04:36 pm »

Well, I think we have all done a good job at not crossing the line.  I mean, as long as I don't show the pictures of Ross in a tutu, it's all good.
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2005, 02:37:09 am »

i reckon it would be more productive if you told what it is that you find so offensive about jjp's work

you hinted that it might be overcompression, but, fwiw, i prefer his mxes of aimee mann's music to bob clearmountain's, or rather, they bring out different aspects of her music (she, herself, might prefer bob's, but what does she know?)

there's a not uniquely australian concept of 'the tall poppy syndrome', when people tend to knock those who get too high for their boots

i hope we're not seeing an example of that disturbing practice here

having seen ross in the flesh, i'm sure he'd look great in a tutu

cheers
max
paris, france
Logged

J.J. Blair

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12809
Re: Zoolander and his mullet want to mix your record!
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2005, 03:49:22 am »

Over compression isn't what bothers me.  I just think the mixes tend to be too crowded.  Not everything has to be audible in the mix, as far as I'm concerned.  There are certain things that affect the song that you might not notice until they are muted, when you realise they are gone.  I also don't care for numerous instruments taking up the full sonic range so that the bass, the guitar, the vocals, the keys, etc are not clearly defined from each other.  Electric guitars don't need to capture everything from 50hz on up.  50hz is the bass's job.  Let the guitar give you the texture and the harmonic content, and properly blended with a good bass sound, it will appear to have lots of low end.  And then you don't need a lot of high mids in the bass, if the kick drum is properly supporting the bass, etc.  

A great example of one of these mixes that I find to be muddy and messy is Jason Falkner's "She Goes To Bed".  But the most important thing is that this mix completely loses the sense of the song and doesn't translate the emotion.  We have talked about recordings like Al Green's, which sound like ass, but just fucking kill you with the vibe, soul and emotion of the performance, because Terry was aware of which part of the song's content was the most important: The vibe not the fidelity.

For some more recent JJP examples, I think he does a decent job of the type of separation I described above on the Stereophonics "Madame Helga" while the drums are riding the toms, and it's just bass, guitar and vox.  But when everything kinda kicks in, I feel like my ears are being gangbanged.  It's like a sonic bukakke, and somebody spooged all over my stereo. (Sorry for the graphic description.  Like I said in Klaus's forum, I had too much FZ at a tender age.)

Personally, I think that the sonic ear cramming and insensitivity to the emotional content of a song are long standing traits of his, and I sometimes wonder if having all that fucking gear just makes it worse.  Case in point, I remember when they were tracking the Grays record and he threw up a really quick rough on the Neve 8038 console over at Music Grinder for me of one of the songs and manually rode the faders.  It was amazing.  Powerful, dynamic and sentimental.  Then, when the CD was done and I listened to that same song, I was like "what the fuck happened to that cool vibe that was on the raw tracks"?  

Does that answer your question?  I'm not saying that every mix he has done sucks or that he's a bad mixer.  I just don't think he's worthy of the hype that the pro audio press gives him or the reverance that A&R idiots have for him.  It's like watching the Halliburton of mixing automatically get the no bid contracts while tons of guys will do better work for cheaper, and in less time.  I'm just the guy who speaks my mind about whoever rubs me the wrong way, I guess.  Go to Ross's forum and read what I think about Clive, for an example.  I guess this is what happens when you marry a Jersey girl ... you tell people more than you maybe should.  LOL.  But then again, being a straight shooter means that I usually only have fellow straight shooters around me, and in a place like Hollywood, there's nothing more important than sorting the chicken shit from the shicken salad. No?
Logged
studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Up