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[aeser]

i have a fairly weak arsenal of mic's to mic a kit, i have the following:

sennheiser md421
2 shure sm58's
akg d112
2 akg c1000s's
2 studio projects c1's

i'm cool with the c1's as the stereo pair, and the md421 on the snare and the 58's on the toms but the d112 i think sounds pretty unacceptable on the kick. basically i'm tracking a very heavy metal band, with extremely fast parts and slower doomier more bombastic parts, i need to get the click for the faster parts but some really good low end for the deep hits, and the d112 gets pretty low but just sounds muddy and bad to me no matter where i put it.

i was thinking of maybe 2 mics, 1 to pick up the low end and 1 closer to the head to get the click, but i could very much use any suggestions i can get here.

thanks


(btw, budget is small, big surprise, can spend up to a grand on the uber-right mic which will solve all my problems and make my wildest dreams come true but of course would much eather keep it under that).

[Tomas Danko]

aeser wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 17:46

i have a fairly weak arsenal of mic's to mic a kit, i have the following: sennheiser md421 2 shure sm58's akg d112 2 akg c1000s's 2 studio projects c1's i'm cool with the c1's as the stereo pair, and the md421 on the snare and the 58's on the toms but the d112 i think sounds pretty unacceptable on the kick. basically i'm tracking a very heavy metal band, with extremely fast parts and slower doomier more bombastic parts, i need to get the click for the faster parts but some really good low end for the deep hits, and the d112 gets pretty low but just sounds muddy and bad to me no matter where i put it. i was thinking of maybe 2 mics, 1 to pick up the low end and 1 closer to the head to get the click, but i could very much use any suggestions i can get here. thanks (btw, budget is small, big surprise, can spend up to a grand on the uber-right mic which will solve all my problems and make my wildest dreams come true but of course would much eather keep it under that).

Heavy Metal you say, extremely fast. Actually, I'd suggest for you to try out the MD421 on kick, C1's as overheads and a C1000S under the snare while you use the rest for toms and the D112 for the floor tom. All depending on the rest of the equation, perhaps you'd be surprised.

Sincerely,

Tomas Danko

[aeser]

Tomas Danko wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 13:12

Heavy Metal you say, extremely fast. Actually, I'd suggest for you to try out the MD421 on kick, C1's as overheads and a C1000S under the snare while you use the rest for toms and the D112 for the floor tom. All depending on the rest of the equation, perhaps you'd be surprised.

thanks man. i tried the 421 on the kick before but it lacked balls, perhaps it's just in the placement? how would you suggest i try the placement for the 421 on the kick? the kick will have a front head with a hole.

(btw the original purpose of the thread, i'm willing to buy more mic's i just wanted to get an idea of what to get, though of course i am MORE than welcoming advice on how to get the job done with what i already have)

thanks

[Tomas Danko]

aeser wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 18:24

Tomas Danko wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 13:12 Heavy Metal you say, extremely fast. Actually, I'd suggest for you to try out the MD421 on kick, C1's as overheads and a C1000S under the snare while you use the rest for toms and the D112 for the floor tom. All depending on the rest of the equation, perhaps you'd be surprised. thanks man. i tried the 421 on the kick before but it lacked balls, perhaps it's just in the placement? how would you suggest i try the placement for the 421 on the kick? the kick will have a front head with a hole. (btw the original purpose of the thread, i'm willing to buy more mic's i just wanted to get an idea of what to get, though of course i am MORE than welcoming advice on how to get the job done with what i already have) thanks

A friend of mine who used to play in a band called Meshuggah for several years told me they had been using 421's on the kick, and actually all over the kit (and album as a whole). Placement is, as you say, crucial. One thing could be to back away with the 421 while using just about anything (another C1000S perhaps?) to get the clicky attack from the skin since that is such an important part of the kick drum sound in speedy Heavy Metal.

However, the faster the pace, the less low end you would want in a kick, and vice versa when you go power ballad tempo.

I know someone producing lots of acclaimed metal who is getting away with using lots of SM57s all over the kit, although his drums always sounds like a plexi cage to my ears. (Not to mention him running it all through lots of Boss DS-1 pedals, but that's a whole different story...) They're dirt cheap and you can always use them on other things, so why not give it a shot. For more present toms perhaps something like the 414 would do it for you, although it's perhaps too glassy and "clicky" for some people. Then again, we're still talking very fast metal right?

Cheers,

Tomas Danko

[stuntbutt]

Shure SM91 laying inside the kick.  Instant Metal.

-----------------------
John Katsafanas

[heyman]

We have actually taped a half dollar or quarter to the bass drum where the Beater makes contact.. That in conjunction with a wood beater should give you the click you crave...

Make sure that It is taped on there real good..

Just my 2 cents..

[aeser]

oh no i mean the click exists in the room when he plays, and if i wanted to pull tricks i'd just put a clip trigger into a dm5 and also record a triggered kick to get "artificial" click in there for if i need it, i just wanted to figure out how to better document the "click" acousticly with micraphones.

i'm thinking i may pick up some more md421's, i really dig that mic. i don't mind the 58's on the toms. i guess i could definately stand to get some better stereo pair mic's than the c1's but can't really afford a good step up just yet, so i guess i'll play around with the md421 on the kick and see if i can get a better sound.

[John Ivan]

Hi,

One way to collect the click of the kick drum is to mult the channel over to another track while printing and set up an eq curve that will trigger well. Dump the low end out,maybe a mid end peak. Then,when you mix,run the clicky bass drum track through a gate to make sure nothing else can leak in and trigger it and run that signal into the DM5 and return that in another mix channel. Now you have the real drum,a loud Britte clicky sound and you can now chose which kick sound you want from the DM5.

Hope that is helpful, It has worked for me.