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[Norwood]

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 March 2005 19:47

I get right in there suggesting arangement changes, chord changes, vocal melody changes. Anything it takes to take a song a step higher. I am not there to be the bands best friend. I am there to make them make the bestr record they can. If all a band wants is someone to press record, I'm not the man, and won't work with them, because it will end up in frustration on both sides. The times where I have gone foreward and been hands off, have resulted in shitty records. AN dfunny enough, the bands were never happy either. As they were always left wondering why the record was crap. However helping them FIND their sound is not one of them. Helping them to PERFECT and achieve the sound they have in mind, is.

I was interested to see what Henchman said.  We have pretty similar views on production.  I think arrangement is one of the biggest responsibilities a producer has.  I think its my job as a producer to take the songs, good and bad, and find a way to present them in a positive light.  Just because a song sounds acceptable live, doesn't mean it will translate on a record.  I use whatever tools are needed to accomplish this, ie. instrumentation, rewriting parts with the band(I never take songwriting credit), changes in melody, writing basslines, guitar solos, finding/creating hooks.  
I usually engineer these sessions too so I have complete quality control over sounds, tone etc.  One thing I always do on electric guitar is do a split and take the completely dry signal from the guitar and the mic'ed amp.  This way if there is a difference of opinion on tone, I have a dry version to reamp.  I have done this and reamped the part and at mixdown the guitarist said, "see man, I told you that tone was the way to go"... I never told him.  

I totally agree with Henchman, anytime I have layed back, neither party was happy with the outcome.

[Ryan Leigh Patterson]

 I almost always have a few suggestions for bands, mainly arrangement and vocal harmony issues, and I'll almost always suggest/setup totally different guitar tones.  I beleive that as a producer it's my job to ensure that the band gets a good product.  My first job is to figure out what they define as good.  I've worked with crazy talented guitarist/singers/songwriters, and i expect them to have spectacular performances, so I keep my comments limited to their performance and tone.  I've also worked with bands that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag, but play with an amazing amount of conviction and energy, and I'll make sure that we refine their songs and music into something that is more representative to the type of music they want to play.  I've often told bands to take out a third verse, or come in with the vocals sooner etc.  One perticular band I worked with had a tune that just wasn't working, and I was in the kitchen with the guitarist/singer over a coffee.  He was playing the tune on an acoustic gutiar and singing along, trying to figure out another electric guitar part.  I instantly realized that the song should have never been electric, it's an acoustic tune.  We tracked it right then, told the bass player to bring in his upright and the drummer to bring his brushes.  Bamm, a total succes, and everyone loves the song.  I feel that as producers, we need to serve 4 things

1. The song
2. The artist
3. The audience
4. Ourselves (this is a very sticky point, and could also be # 1 in the list)  

If you know that the band is not playing to their potential, or that their song isn't quite as refined as it should be, tell them, it's your job! They hired you because they wanted to make a good record, not because they wanted an engineer.  Serve the music while keeping the band excited and happy, and throw the engineer a bone or two if he/she is good, (or a big bottle of whiskey if the band stinks, or and even bigger bottle if the band stinks and you're the engineer and producer!)  

Take it or leave it, but this is my opinion!!

R  

[TheViking]

So...   when I was interning and working at bigger commercial rooms back in the day I remember thinking 'all these producers are total dicks'.   It seemed like every guy I assisted for was arrogant, opinionated and walked around the place like they never made a musical mistake their entire life.   They fought with the bands...   told them consistantly that they sucked...   yelled at me a whole lot...   re-wrote the songs...   one guy actually made a band member cry...   followed by more insistant yelling at me...

Everyone here sounds so nice and so easy to work with.   Where were you all when I was running around the control room like a jackass trying to find more of the Mogami TT patch cables 'because I really don't want to use those cheap ones...   can't you hear the noise they make?'


I'm with saskatchewan on how I work - the producers job is to make sure the song, band and performances are the best they possibly can be.   Whatever it takes...   I really try not to make the band cry.

The Viking

[j.hall]

TheViking wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 17:29

Where were you all when I was running around the control room like a jackass ........................

deciding that going through the same exact thing wasn't for me, and i could make records on my own, in a genre and scene of music that doesn't even want people like that around.......

[TheViking]

J...   let's do a record together - you've got a great attitude and sense of musicality.   It's too bad you're halfway across the country.   I definately don't miss those days and prefer much more running my own place and actually befriending the artists I work with and getting to know them.   I guess it was all for the learning experience - How Not to Produce 101.

TheViking

[j.hall]

there are these modern inventions called airplanes.......hahahahaha

fly me out, i'm for hire!!!!

or, bring a record out here for mixing, either way, i'd love to do a record with ya.

we can tell our stories of having coffee mugs thrown at us and all the other absurd things that idiots thought were a cool way to express their "power".