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Author Topic: DAW systems explained!  (Read 5380 times)

ammitsboel

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2005, 08:04:56 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 10:39

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 23:52


the thing ammitsb
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"The male brain is designed for ecstasy" -Dr. Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg

bblackwood

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2005, 08:13:29 am »

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 07:04


Maybe I don't know how food tastes... maybe I should do a blind tasting test?
Maybe I don't know what I think... maybe I should do a blind thinking test?
...I'm in doubt about if what i hear is true... I can't make a decision, let someone else do it for me... or better yet, let a group of people decide what i should think and do.

Do you see a problem here??

Absolutely! I see a guy who thinks his ears are infallible, when decades of research have conclusively proven that they are not...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

davidc

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2005, 08:43:02 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 10:39

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 23:52


the thing ammitsb
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ryan v

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2005, 08:54:09 am »

davidc wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 13:43

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 10:39

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Tue, 15 March 2005 23:52


the thing ammitsb
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ammitsboel

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2005, 09:11:39 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 13:13

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 07:04


Maybe I don't know how food tastes... maybe I should do a blind tasting test?
Maybe I don't know what I think... maybe I should do a blind thinking test?
...I'm in doubt about if what i hear is true... I can't make a decision, let someone else do it for me... or better yet, let a group of people decide what i should think and do.

Do you see a problem here??

Absolutely! I see a guy who thinks his ears are infallible, when decades of research have conclusively proven that they are not...



First of all there's about 7 guys involved in this test.
Second of all I'm not saying anything I'm in doubt about that I've not been testing for several days/weeks.

But you go ahead, don't trust your ears... what an  uncool trend!?
I've decided that I'm not going to be a part of it.

Best Regards
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"The male brain is designed for ecstasy" -Dr. Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg

bblackwood

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2005, 09:16:40 am »

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 08:11

But you go ahead, don't trust your ears... what an  uncool trend!?

Who said I don't trust my ears? It's not black and white, Henrik, the issue is that your ears can be fooled whether you admit it or not.

Any engineer who has never thought he heard an EQ tweak only to realize it was in bypass is either lying or inexperienced...

Quote:

I've decided that I'm not going to be a part of it.

That's too bad, without checks and balances, people who only trust their ears and ignore science end up in audiophool territory and have little if any impact on the mastering world...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

ammitsboel

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2005, 10:03:36 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 14:16

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 08:11

But you go ahead, don't trust your ears... what an  uncool trend!?

Who said I don't trust my ears? It's not black and white, Henrik, the issue is that your ears can be fooled whether you admit it or not.

Any engineer who has never thought he heard an EQ tweak only to realize it was in bypass is either lying or inexperienced...

The ears can't be fooled, but the brain can.
It's not black and white in the same manner as your reply to Iznogood's post about the test I did.

You express serious doubt in you posts in regards to my tests and the result of it.
I'm not trying to argue with your believes, I'm just making it clear to everyone who reads these posts, that I'm not in doubt about what i heard and neither was the others that participated in the test.    

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 14:16


Quote:

I've decided that I'm not going to be a part of it.

That's too bad, without checks and balances, people who only trust their ears and ignore science end up in audiophool territory and have little if any impact on the mastering world...


Remember your own quote: It's not black and white.
I don't ignore science, I keep what I consider a healthy balance between my ears and the science. What you have to remember is that science is a very limited parameter in musical reproduction. The person who says otherwise is very wrong.


Best Regards
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zetterstroem

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2005, 02:35:45 pm »

brad...

don't you find it strange that when you give some people that are used to listening all day long a cd with some files and they don't even know if there ARE a difference pick out the problem track and discribe the same things as henrik heard???

i would like to believe in science.... as i always do as a starting point.... but sometimes i experince things that tinkers with my beliefs...

and although i don't get as angry as henrik (k
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bblackwood

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2005, 03:01:40 pm »

Hey, where did I say that one only should use scientific method? I'm paid for my ears, not my testing methodology...

The fact is, time and again, even experienced listeners have been fooled by the slightest of things. When someone says they hear a difference in something they should not, the first thing to do is prove they actually hear the diff rtaher than scramble about looing for what mau the difference which may not even exist.

Make sense?

It's not doubting that you have good ears or can hear things, it just experience that has seen countless golden eared folks fooled by little things.

And yes, even a room full of people can be fooled without knowing knwoing are being fooled. Read up on it sometime sometime- it's incredible how much info we humans give out and take in that we are unaware of...

I'm all about subjectivity when balanced with the real world.
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Brad Blackwood
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Ronny

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2005, 10:21:49 pm »



Well I'm 54 and have been evaluating gear and what it is that makes people like some sounds, songs and recordings over another since I got my first 3" reel to reel when I was 12 and Brad is spot on. All 5 senses of the human, not only can be fooled but they are constantly being fooled. Also 2 or more senses can react and affect each other and sway results. Expectations, from my tests have always revealed that they lead to imagination, best to test subjects that don't know what it is that they are supposed to report. We have to rely on our ears yes, of course, but the only way to confirm that your ears are hearing correctly at any given moment of any given day, is to test what you think you hear with blind tests and if you are a participant, double blind. When you get into doing it scientifically, and it's not easy to eliminate all factors that can sway human evaluations, you'll find that people don't hear gold wire as being sonically more pure than copper, optical digital transfers do not sound different than AES/EBU over wire, Mogami cable does not sound better than ProCo when the gauge, length and construction materials are the same and that one cd-r brand doesn't sound different than another. We know more about the surface of Mars than we do about the auditory cortex and if the brain is fooled, it doesn't matter if the ear issn't fooled, it's the brain that evaluates. The ear is just a glorified conduit.
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dcollins

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2005, 11:21:07 pm »

ammitsboel wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 07:03



The ears can't be fooled, but the brain can.



Excepting blunt trauma, how does one separate the ear from the brain?

Don't they work as a system?
Better than the best B&K gear, though!

DC

Bobro

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2005, 03:49:34 am »

bblackwood wrote on Wed, 16 March 2005 14:16



Any engineer who has never thought he heard an EQ tweak only to realize it was in bypass is either lying or inexperienced...





Or so lacking in imagination that it's curious as to why he'd be allowed anywhere near the knobs in the first place...

-Bobro
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Yannick Willox

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Re: DAW systems explained!
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2005, 09:45:11 am »

I always put my EQ in bypass when I tweak it  Laughing
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Yannick Willox
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