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Author Topic: Placing tweeters to the inside...  (Read 4213 times)

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Placing tweeters to the inside...
« on: March 13, 2005, 08:23:54 pm »

Hi,

I was reading the manual of Alesis monitor Ones mk2 and they do recommend that the user mount them with the tweeters to the inside of the listening triangle.
I remember a few years ago Bill Roberts (Level) recommending me the very same technique, concerning nearfields, like the  popular Yamaha  NS10s.
At the manual they describe some pros and cons and I am testing them right now with this new topology.
have you guys ever considered this on mstering set-ups?
In fact I do not see this arrangement very much on popular studios worldwide.
Thanks
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

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TotalSonic

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2005, 08:41:27 pm »

Hi Alecio -
In general near field monitors are not used in mastering.  I have a pair of NS-10ms kept off to the side that on request I'll play back things for clients through  or occasionally maybe check through for a minute but 99% of the playback in my work is with the full range monitors set up in mid/far field.  I think you'll find most ME's do the same.  I think you'll also find that most mastering monitors have the tweeters aligned vertically with woofers so that this really isn't an issue.  Also - I think it's best to work off of manufacturers recommendations as a starting point and then shift speaker placement around experimentally until you find something that works well for you, and then stick with it - as familiarity is the key to getting the most out of your monitors.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2005, 08:45:28 pm »

Thanks Steve. I am not pretty sure yet of the big improvments. I decided to open a mix, do some fader automations, listen to some recently done mixes. Hope to have a fuller opinion soon.
But it sound fine.
Probably less comb filtering while one moves his head from L to R and less stress trying to be exctly at the center of the sweet spot during mix time.
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
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dcollins

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2005, 08:49:40 pm »

Al

bobkatz

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2005, 09:12:15 pm »

Al
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chrisj

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2005, 09:55:18 pm »

If you have tweeters to the inside without any toe-in or fancy crossover delay trickery, you will have a particular kind of physical time-unalignment, the opposite of geometries like the Dunlavys or Lipinskis. The tweeters will be closer to your ear than the woofers, and their sounds will be more out-front and uninterfered with by lower frequencies- even if the actual mix has them interfered with. I can produce this effect with a group delay control on an EQ of mine that lets me slide the 'tap' for the FIR moving-average filter around... slide the highest band forward a bit and the sparkly stuff comes off the surface of the sound and more forward at you.

I wouldn't want my speakers doing that too- it would get confusing- but if you're not actually fooling with group delay for sound effects it's not such a big deal. Again- if it sounds great to you, go from there.

One thing about tweeter-center with no toe-in is that the lower frequency drivers can't beam at your ear- irregularities in response will go straight out into the room and you're listening quite off-axis to everything. If the drivers beam, you might be getting a more accurate sound without toe-in.

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2005, 10:04:27 pm »

Many thanks guys. Very informative!

Very off topic now.. Monitor Ones passive MK2 are much better than their  original formula and than their self powered version.

Now.. would someone explain to me what is toe-in? I could not find a proper translation for this term, besides the basic "location", "finger/toe" meanings.

Thanks again
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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hi, dc
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2005, 10:22:54 pm »

Hi, DC
Please, check pages 20 and 21 of the pdf:
http://www.alesis.com/downloads/manuals/M1ActiveMKII_Manual. pdf
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
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zetterstroem

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 12:10:31 am »

hey al
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Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2005, 04:48:00 pm »

many thanks, bud.

Intersting.. someone mentioned I should separate the monitors a little bit more. So the perfect equilateral triangle idea  must be abandoned?
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao

Level

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2005, 07:00:30 pm »

Al
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zetterstroem

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2005, 12:58:17 am »

Al
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bblackwood

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2005, 08:38:57 am »

FWIW, there's no rule about speaker placement - do what sounds good. Some speakers sound better toed-in, some don't...
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zetterstroem

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2005, 02:40:29 pm »

certainly no rules..... but maybe rules of thumb  Smile
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Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading means people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why not? It ain't worth nothing anyway." (b.dylan)

Alécio Costa - Brazil

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Re: Placing tweeters to the inside...
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2005, 10:12:49 pm »

Agreed!
I fact what I have concluded now with just one week mixing and mastering with this new topology is that it seems I'm taking my eq/panning decisions faster. I would really love to post some stuff of mine and see you gurus criticize the stuff, ranging from classical to hard rock.
Nice friday
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Alécio Costa Studio
High-end Mastering, Music Production
http://www.aleciocosta.com

Listen to my album at:
http://www.audiostreet.net/aleciocosta

MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/aleciocostamasterizacao
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