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Author Topic: Widening Stereo Image?  (Read 19828 times)

TotalSonic

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2005, 07:34:31 PM »

mcsnare wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 21:02

I don't know how Chris does it, but yes, using the widening knob on the Dangerous console doesn't  seem to mess with the middle unless you use a crazy amount of it.
Dave McNair


If that's the case then all of a sudden the $5g price tag is seeming actually kind of a bargain.  Just wish I had the budget for it but I think things are tapped out for this year considering I want to sink some money to getting the NTP179-120's I scored modded so that they are easier to use in my process chain, and I still have my eye on an API2500 too.  Guess there's always next year!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Garrett H

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2005, 11:49:46 AM »

If you really want to mess with the stereo image for fun and profit,  you should demo the K-Stereo.  

http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscree n/pageadder_page_id=48

In addition to stereo facilities there are several other usefull featuresk, as well.  As I said, demo a unit and hear for yourself.

Best,
Garrett H.
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futuresound

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2005, 08:17:50 AM »

I heard something about bedini B.A.S.E. processor for stereo widening.(very expensive ,around 6K $ Shocked ) Is it  best widening hardware unit? What is your comment?

http://www.bedini.com/base.htm
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2005, 08:44:08 AM »

There are all kinds of them. I've never heard any that didn't make things sound wimpier. Most of the proprietary designs are concerned with reasonable mono compatibility which is important but it doesn't solve the "balls" issue.

Ronny

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2005, 10:37:54 AM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Sat, 26 March 2005 08:44

There are all kinds of them. I've never heard any that didn't make things sound wimpier. Most of the proprietary designs are concerned with reasonable mono compatibility which is important but it doesn't solve the "balls" issue.



I seldom use a stereo imager to widen the stereo field, but I do use it occasionally to narrow one. The mixes where home recordists pan the instruments hard L and R with the vox centered and big holes at the 10 and 2 o'clock spots can benefit from a bit of narrowing, it fills the stereo image and makes it more mono compatible. IOW, there are more uses for an imager than simply widening the field, it will do the opposite quite effectively.
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tom eaton

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2005, 07:26:19 PM »

In my experience, it's better to choose something specific to widen during mixing rather than trying to widen an entire mix.  Having one or two parts in a track that seem far left and right gives the impression that the mix field is wide, and that can be done without damaging other balances...and without lowering center panned stuff.  I've used the stereo program in the Lex M300, a SPL vitalizer, a Dolby 740 spectral eq, console polarity and eq (flipped polarity and reverse pan followed by eq to minimize cancellation), and other toys to tweak apparent width.  Keyboard and guitar pads, Rhodes tracks and other kind of "transparent" sounds can be tweaked in very pleasant ways, adding width to a mix without screwing up the meat of the song.

-tom

masterhse

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2005, 09:28:03 PM »

Haven't tried it (I have an external M/S processor) but isn't it possible to create an "M/S processor" with a mixer?

1. Group L+R channels of original tracks to create M signal
2. Group L-R (out of phase R) to create S signal. This signal essentaily contains the audio information that is not common to either channel.
3. Feed the M and S group above to a left channel. Mathematically this is: (L+R)+(L-R)= 2L
4. Feed the M group above with an inverted S signal (-S) and sent to a right channel. Mathematically:(L+R)-(L-R) = 2R

Process the M and S signals anyway you want, e.g. compression, eq, etc.

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dcollins

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2005, 09:32:39 PM »

masterhse wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 18:28

Haven't tried it (I have an external M/S processor) but isn't it possible to create an "M/S processor" with a mixer?

1. Group L+R channels of original tracks to create M signal
2. Group L-R (out of phase R) to create S signal. This signal essentaily contains the audio information that is not common to either channel.
3. Feed the M and S group above to a left channel. Mathematically this is: (L+R)+(L-R)= 2L
4. Feed the M group above with an inverted S signal (-S) and sent to a right channel. Mathematically:(L+R)-(L-R) = 2R

Process the M and S signals anyway you want, e.g. compression, eq, etc.




Yep.  And you can pull the faders down to get rid of those "2's" if you need to...

DC

dcollins

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2005, 09:34:25 PM »

futuresound wrote on Sat, 26 March 2005 05:17

I heard something about bedini B.A.S.E. processor for stereo widening.(very expensive ,around 6K $ Shocked ) Is it  best widening hardware unit? What is your comment?

http://www.bedini.com/base.htm


"Bandini"

masterhse

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2005, 09:44:32 PM »

dcollins wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 21:32


Yep.  And you can pull the faders down to get rid of those "2's" if you need to...

DC



Thanks DC, wanted to verify the formula.

The "2's" will depend on how much of the M or S is used to "widen".   Prob closer to a buck 99 Smile
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bobkatz

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2005, 04:05:03 AM »

Another way to make a widening tool is by just adding two faders to your stereo pair. Reverse the pans and reverse the polarities. This is mathematically equivalent to converting to MS and back to stereo, "on the fly". As you add them in, the overall level will go down and you will have to compensate; use grouping tools and it becomes easy.
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OTR-jkl

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2005, 11:34:42 AM »

I tried using M/S to widen the image a little bit on a recent project only to find out that there were some "hidden" phase issues within the mixes. There were certain elements of the mix that either disappeared or shifted within the stereo field when the M/S was applied. So you have to be really careful...
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Fifthcircle

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2005, 04:49:55 PM »

Another plug for Bob's K-stereo box here.  I've had it completely save some recording that I've done.  

Most of the time I use the multiband enhancer that is in Sequoia.  It isn't perfect, but with careful tweaking of the bands, it is possible to get the effect without doing much of anything to the center of the image.

--Ben
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TransientTerminator

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2005, 07:47:43 PM »

Lots of spreading options here, it seems
http://www.jlmaudio.com/mastering%20Console.htm
Please help me to understand all the controls on this console, why are they there (situations where they are useful), what do they do and how exactly do they work, routing etc. If you know other mastering consoles on the web with manuals, etc. technical info, I'd appreciate links.
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difranzini

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2005, 03:08:05 AM »

I often come accross (last time on DIGI's digizine) some pro's favorable opinion and use of DUY Wide. Is it worth anything to you guys?

Thanks

Carlo

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