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Author Topic: Widening Stereo Image?  (Read 19851 times)

ajcamlet

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Widening Stereo Image?
« on: March 11, 2005, 12:48:46 PM »

Isn't there a technique of widening the image OR- bringing out the extreme L/R content of a a mix by having two copies of a mix up on a console but attenuating one by 3db....or something like like that?  Does this ring any bells?

ajc

TotalSonic

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2005, 01:25:57 PM »

I don't know the technique you're speaking of  but a much more common method is to encode to M/S, increase the gain of the Side (or attenuate the Mid), and then decode to L/R.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  

ajcamlet

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 01:28:02 PM »

TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 13:25

I don't know the technique you're speaking of  but a much more common method is to encode to M/S, increase the gain of the Side (or attenuate the Mid), and then decode to L/R.

Best regards,
Steve Berson  


Hey steve---

i think thats what i'm referring to...can you go into detail about that?

lucey

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 01:54:22 PM »

A Mid Side mix like you're describing would require a 2 channel recording, with a cardioid mic and a fig 8 placed on the same axis, with the cardioid aimed to the source, and the fig 8 aimed across the source.

On playback the Fig 8 is multed to 2 channels (effectively L and R, when one of them is phase inverted.)  The cardioid is the mid.

So if it were CH1 Fig8, CH2 Mid, CH 3 Fig8 (phase) ...  each side of the fig 8 is seeing the outside in-phase, and the cardioid is seeing the middle/front.

Panning and levels of CH 1 and 3 change the width and depth of the image.





In mastering M-S processing possible by first encoding the stereo signal to M-S, then processing M and S differently, then decoding back to stereo.

This requires very high quality encode/decode as program material is obviously more sensitive than 2 tracks of whatever might be recorded.

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ajcamlet

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 02:19:29 PM »

and what do folks typically use to "encode/decode" to M+S?

TotalSonic

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 02:37:10 PM »

ajcamlet wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 19:19

and what do folks typically use to "encode/decode" to M+S?



I'm using the Sonoris codec which is a digital plugin proprietary to the SAWStudio workstation.  It calculates at 64bit integer processing and dithers down to the SAW native 32bit integer internal processing stream with tpdf.  I've been thinking of getting a couple of the older German "panorama" modules (such as ones made by Neumann, Telefunken, Siemens) racked up to have another option in the analog realm as I've been able to find cool stuff from http://www.vintagecity.de before and they have a few different ones available but haven't made a decision regarding this yet.  

Dangerous Music makes both the "Master" insert & monitoring box and their "S/M" box which both offer high quality M/S encoding and decoding also.    There are a few other companies offering M/S modules too.

Regarding the original question - I also have the SPL SX2 Vitalizer in the rack which has a stereo widener that can work ok for some material but very rarely ever use it.   Since I do a ton of cutting for vinyl master I actually spend more time narrowing the stereo image than widening it!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jackthebear

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 03:43:45 PM »

The Waves matrix isn't too bad either as a software solution and the DBX Quantum I understand is a kewl little unit if you want to go the hardware option.

Personally I use M/S as a last resort in CD mastering as it is phase manipulation and I find it smears the centre of the image. Like Steve I use it to focus the middle when I'm cutting lacquers, but for trying to spread the program out.........forget it in most cases.

Hey there are guys that swear by it. It can help in a situation where say you can help some guitars in the sides with more eq without affecting vocals in the centre as those two elements live roughly in the same part of the frequency spectrum.

Remember this as well.....most playback systems now offer some sort of widening button and radio does the same.

Proceed with caution.

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dcollins

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 06:19:57 PM »

jackthebear wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 12:43


Personally I use M/S as a last resort in CD mastering as it is phase manipulation and I find it smears the centre of the image.



Because anything you do to make it "wider" is going to cause the center to suffer.  And in most pop music the center is where the action is.  I guess 1% of time you might consider a frequency-limited addition of L-R that tried to target, say, electric guitars, but then the vocal might suffer, causing you to go chase your tail...

There does seem to an unfortunate tendency for people think that you have to do some kind of M/S manipulation, parallel compression, mulit-band, whatever, or you aren't really mastering.

Heed Tony's advice and be very careful with widening.  You have to constantly compare in mono anytime you do anything to the L-R signal, as you'll get it as wide as the mighty Mississippi only to find that in mono, it sounds tiny and stupid.......

DC

Ed Littman

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 07:17:13 PM »

dcollins wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 18:19


Because anything you do to make it "wider" is going to cause the center to suffer.  

with the exception of the Dangerous box. I don'tknow how they do it but I heard no loss in the center.
Ed
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Ronny

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2005, 02:53:31 AM »

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 19:17

dcollins wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 18:19


Because anything you do to make it "wider" is going to cause the center to suffer.  

with the exception of the Dangerous box. I don'tknow how they do it but I heard no loss in the center.
Ed



Same with the waves S1. You can widen L and R and maintain center or you can widen extreme and lose everybit of the center image. It depends on how you dial it in. However I'm in Tony and DC's camp, always toggle to mono to check that you haven't lost too much information otherwise when the tune is played in mono or listeners are on one hard side of the sweet spot in stereo, they won't hear the whole tune. If you just reverse phase on one side of a stereo signal and than listen to both signals in mono, about the only thing left in the center will be the stereo reverb "if" it's used on the vocals, so be careful when you go tinkering with a clients stereo image.

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jazzius

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2005, 03:00:20 AM »

Ed Littman wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 00:17

dcollins wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 18:19


Because anything you do to make it "wider" is going to cause the center to suffer.  

with the exception of the Dangerous box. I don'tknow how they do it but I heard no loss in the center.
Ed


That's impossible....widening the LR means weakening the centre....no way round that.

One trick i've found for widening stuff is to add subtle distortion to the S channel.....this tends to only bring up low level side info like reverb, delays and details.....so it seems to widen without damaging mono power the way pure gain change would......my goto box for this is the full range disto on the Ibis.....because it seems to add distortion fairly evenly thru the spectrum.

Ed Littman

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2005, 09:25:20 AM »

jazzius wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 03:00


That's impossible....widening the LR means weakening the centre....no way round that.




I spent only a few miniutes with the box at Dave Mcsnare's studio, & as I didn't put it through it's paces fully, it still blew anything i've heard away by a long shot.
Ed
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bobkatz

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 11:04:07 AM »

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 19:17

dcollins wrote on Fri, 11 March 2005 18:19


Because anything you do to make it "wider" is going to cause the center to suffer.  

with the exception of the Dangerous box. I don'tknow how they do it but I heard no loss in the center.
Ed


Ed, if the Dangerous is a true M/S widener, it's technically impossible not to get center loss. As the S goes up, the center goes down. Test it out with test tones and try to psyche out what they're doing.

I feel obligated to put in a plug here for the K-Stereo processor. It increases ambience, depth and apparent separation and definition of the instruments with no effect on the center. For example, if the snare drum was recorded in the original mix with reverb and the vocal "dry", then the snare will pull back and get "wetter" while the vocal will stay relatively up front. It's exactly like having a handle on the reverb returns in a mix after the mix is over. You can even adjust the tonality of the original reverb, which is very helpful if someone mixed with a cheesy reverb and you would like to make it warmer. Instead of equalizing the direct sound, you equalize the reverb and the results can be very pleasing. I'll leave that up to your imaginations.

Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch. The wetter you make a recording AFTER a mix has been done, you are changing the original balance. The more diffuse and less defined becomes the vocal, for example if you are pulling it back relative to the ambience. But this mix change has nothing to do with the problems that you encounter when you increase an S channel. Au contraire. K-Stereo is extremely immune to those problems.

But it sure helps to get a more u-shaped presentation in a rather flat-sounding mix and by virtue of the psychoacoustics involved, the sound usually has more definition of the internal elements.

BK
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lucey

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2005, 03:57:34 PM »


the safer way to get width is subtle L/R eq differences


and i agree with you DAVE ... the need to junk on processes is just silly and often counter productive.   it doesn't have to be "Hard Work", just smart and tasteful work.
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mcsnare

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2005, 04:02:32 PM »

I don't know how Chris does it, but yes, using the widening knob on the Dangerous console doesn't  seem to mess with the middle unless you use a crazy amount of it.
Dave McNair

TotalSonic

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2005, 07:34:31 PM »

mcsnare wrote on Sat, 12 March 2005 21:02

I don't know how Chris does it, but yes, using the widening knob on the Dangerous console doesn't  seem to mess with the middle unless you use a crazy amount of it.
Dave McNair


If that's the case then all of a sudden the $5g price tag is seeming actually kind of a bargain.  Just wish I had the budget for it but I think things are tapped out for this year considering I want to sink some money to getting the NTP179-120's I scored modded so that they are easier to use in my process chain, and I still have my eye on an API2500 too.  Guess there's always next year!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Garrett H

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2005, 11:49:46 AM »

If you really want to mess with the stereo image for fun and profit,  you should demo the K-Stereo.  

http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscree n/pageadder_page_id=48

In addition to stereo facilities there are several other usefull featuresk, as well.  As I said, demo a unit and hear for yourself.

Best,
Garrett H.
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futuresound

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2005, 08:17:50 AM »

I heard something about bedini B.A.S.E. processor for stereo widening.(very expensive ,around 6K $ Shocked ) Is it  best widening hardware unit? What is your comment?

http://www.bedini.com/base.htm
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2005, 08:44:08 AM »

There are all kinds of them. I've never heard any that didn't make things sound wimpier. Most of the proprietary designs are concerned with reasonable mono compatibility which is important but it doesn't solve the "balls" issue.

Ronny

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2005, 10:37:54 AM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Sat, 26 March 2005 08:44

There are all kinds of them. I've never heard any that didn't make things sound wimpier. Most of the proprietary designs are concerned with reasonable mono compatibility which is important but it doesn't solve the "balls" issue.



I seldom use a stereo imager to widen the stereo field, but I do use it occasionally to narrow one. The mixes where home recordists pan the instruments hard L and R with the vox centered and big holes at the 10 and 2 o'clock spots can benefit from a bit of narrowing, it fills the stereo image and makes it more mono compatible. IOW, there are more uses for an imager than simply widening the field, it will do the opposite quite effectively.
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tom eaton

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2005, 07:26:19 PM »

In my experience, it's better to choose something specific to widen during mixing rather than trying to widen an entire mix.  Having one or two parts in a track that seem far left and right gives the impression that the mix field is wide, and that can be done without damaging other balances...and without lowering center panned stuff.  I've used the stereo program in the Lex M300, a SPL vitalizer, a Dolby 740 spectral eq, console polarity and eq (flipped polarity and reverse pan followed by eq to minimize cancellation), and other toys to tweak apparent width.  Keyboard and guitar pads, Rhodes tracks and other kind of "transparent" sounds can be tweaked in very pleasant ways, adding width to a mix without screwing up the meat of the song.

-tom

masterhse

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2005, 09:28:03 PM »

Haven't tried it (I have an external M/S processor) but isn't it possible to create an "M/S processor" with a mixer?

1. Group L+R channels of original tracks to create M signal
2. Group L-R (out of phase R) to create S signal. This signal essentaily contains the audio information that is not common to either channel.
3. Feed the M and S group above to a left channel. Mathematically this is: (L+R)+(L-R)= 2L
4. Feed the M group above with an inverted S signal (-S) and sent to a right channel. Mathematically:(L+R)-(L-R) = 2R

Process the M and S signals anyway you want, e.g. compression, eq, etc.

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dcollins

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2005, 09:32:39 PM »

masterhse wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 18:28

Haven't tried it (I have an external M/S processor) but isn't it possible to create an "M/S processor" with a mixer?

1. Group L+R channels of original tracks to create M signal
2. Group L-R (out of phase R) to create S signal. This signal essentaily contains the audio information that is not common to either channel.
3. Feed the M and S group above to a left channel. Mathematically this is: (L+R)+(L-R)= 2L
4. Feed the M group above with an inverted S signal (-S) and sent to a right channel. Mathematically:(L+R)-(L-R) = 2R

Process the M and S signals anyway you want, e.g. compression, eq, etc.




Yep.  And you can pull the faders down to get rid of those "2's" if you need to...

DC

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2005, 09:34:25 PM »

futuresound wrote on Sat, 26 March 2005 05:17

I heard something about bedini B.A.S.E. processor for stereo widening.(very expensive ,around 6K $ Shocked ) Is it  best widening hardware unit? What is your comment?

http://www.bedini.com/base.htm


"Bandini"

masterhse

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2005, 09:44:32 PM »

dcollins wrote on Mon, 28 March 2005 21:32


Yep.  And you can pull the faders down to get rid of those "2's" if you need to...

DC



Thanks DC, wanted to verify the formula.

The "2's" will depend on how much of the M or S is used to "widen".   Prob closer to a buck 99 Smile
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bobkatz

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2005, 04:05:03 AM »

Another way to make a widening tool is by just adding two faders to your stereo pair. Reverse the pans and reverse the polarities. This is mathematically equivalent to converting to MS and back to stereo, "on the fly". As you add them in, the overall level will go down and you will have to compensate; use grouping tools and it becomes easy.
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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2005, 11:34:42 AM »

I tried using M/S to widen the image a little bit on a recent project only to find out that there were some "hidden" phase issues within the mixes. There were certain elements of the mix that either disappeared or shifted within the stereo field when the M/S was applied. So you have to be really careful...
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Fifthcircle

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2005, 04:49:55 PM »

Another plug for Bob's K-stereo box here.  I've had it completely save some recording that I've done.  

Most of the time I use the multiband enhancer that is in Sequoia.  It isn't perfect, but with careful tweaking of the bands, it is possible to get the effect without doing much of anything to the center of the image.

--Ben
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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2005, 07:47:43 PM »

Lots of spreading options here, it seems
http://www.jlmaudio.com/mastering%20Console.htm
Please help me to understand all the controls on this console, why are they there (situations where they are useful), what do they do and how exactly do they work, routing etc. If you know other mastering consoles on the web with manuals, etc. technical info, I'd appreciate links.
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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2005, 03:08:05 AM »

I often come accross (last time on DIGI's digizine) some pro's favorable opinion and use of DUY Wide. Is it worth anything to you guys?

Thanks

Carlo

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2005, 01:55:09 PM »

Quote:

Another way to make a widening tool is by just adding two faders to your stereo pair. Reverse the pans and reverse the polarities. This is mathematically equivalent to converting to MS and back to stereo, "on the fly". As you add them in, the overall level will go down and you will have to compensate; use grouping tools and it becomes easy. -Bob Katz-


Holy guacamole Mr. Katz!!! That is amazing! How did you figure this out? That is absolutely amazing. If you haven't noticed, I'm always excited by smart and novel ideas. And this has just made my year!

I can see why some people are considered great thinkers. But to visualize an idea by one is like the first sight of an illumination of lightning. All thoughts race to that instant, but what was captured with those eyes could never be spoken in words.

Absolutely brilliant. I wonder if Bob Ludwig knows about this?

-John
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bobkatz

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2005, 06:35:22 PM »

JohnMcD wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 13:55

Quote:

Another way to make a widening tool is by just adding two faders to your stereo pair. Reverse the pans and reverse the polarities. This is mathematically equivalent to converting to MS and back to stereo, "on the fly". As you add them in, the overall level will go down and you will have to compensate; use grouping tools and it becomes easy. -Bob Katz-


Holy guacamole Mr. Katz!!! That is amazing! How did you figure this out?





Thanks, Batman! It hit me one day and I played with it and said, "this works." Then I did the math and proved 100% that it is a simplification of the standard L+R = M and L-R =S formulas and how they are manipulated.

So, here's a quiz: What happens if you just slowly add in the two new faders whose pans are reversed, but DON'T reverse the polarities?  --- Answer---you are slowly making mono!  That is----you are adding in more and more center channel. When the second pair of faders are at the same level as the first you get 6 dB more level and perfect mono. But when you reverse the polarities, you are slowly removing the center channel instead, which is the same as removing M (or "making more S")...

BK
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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2005, 08:28:22 PM »

JohnMcD wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 12:55

...I wonder if Bob Ludwig knows about this?
Probably, I was doing it on string sessions at Motown in 1969. Every amplification stage appearing on a balanced, double-plug patchbay is a wonderful thing. You learn to (not to mention have to...) patch up precisely what you need to do an optimal job.

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2005, 09:23:56 PM »

Bob Olhsson wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 20:28

JohnMcD wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 12:55

...I wonder if Bob Ludwig knows about this?
Probably, I was doing it on string sessions at Motown in 1969. Every amplification stage appearing on a balanced, double-plug patchbay is a wonderful thing. You learn to (not to mention have to...) patch up precisely what you need to do an optimal job.



No doubt BL knows about, it's basic M-S. Engineers started finding out about it when stereo systems were first being introduced. Some of the pioneers like Lester Polfus probably knew about it earlier, I figure that he stumbled across the phenomenon soon after he developed the multi-track recorder and built his first studio, it was 3 channel.
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compasspnt

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2005, 02:54:28 AM »

I have found only one way to truly widen a stereo image without losing anything in the centre, or acquiring phase problems.  But is is somewhat physical.  It involves picking up speakers and moving them, and an extension of cables......
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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2005, 03:26:59 AM »

ok, we're here in highend, but if it's allowed, and ok, i would recommend testing the waves S1. It's a plugin (VST, RTAS, DX) and if you are a computer nerd, you should check it out.. way too expensive, but with accurate results.. +10% wider is ok... the rest is for experimental music..Wink(

works great on blackmetal and deathmetal productions.. also some industrial, if you keep the bassdrum separate..
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dcollins

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2005, 11:05:06 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Mon, 11 April 2005 23:54

I have found only one way to truly widen a stereo image without losing anything in the centre, or acquiring phase problems.  But is is somewhat physical.  It involves picking up speakers and moving them, and an extension of cables......



This has also been my experience!  But you sure hear a lot about it.  I think some clients even think this is a standard part of "modern" mastering.........

DC

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2005, 01:58:45 AM »

Umm.. I am either gonna get ignored or squashed here...

But stupid is as stupid does, so.......

( Note. Usual disclaimers cos I AINT a m*stering guy. Just a guy who m*sters stuff for friends and the like)

In PT ( yes I hear the cringe) I tried to accomplish widening a track at the request of a Friend but lets call her a client. She makes dance/lounge electronic music, with a few acoustic elements thrown in here and there and is slowly but surely getting better in mixing her own projects. But She had a terrible sounding room and monitors so usually made thin dark sounding mixes

So I started to set up a session that was basically in a parallel processing format. with the intent to get a higher RMS feeling track.

Trying alternately the S1, T-rax and  then the DUY yeilded so so results. As described earlier basically, a smearing of the Kik and other center percussive elements occured and I was not feeling great about what was happening to the track.

So after a while I wondered that because the center elements were mainly under say 1000 Hz or so perhaps I could apply the widening to an EQ'ed/ Hpassed track and not have the same negative effect occur to the middle.

in essence I made a parallel ssetup up that contained 3 streams of processing with the first as a mainly untouched track, The second as a "bass enhancing track" more or less panned to mono and a third as a gentle bandpassed widening track.

Obviously the 3 aux buses that the plugins were inserted  on had identical plugs both in kind and amount to avoid phase cancellation and as a safety I had the music on another track with no processing on so I could A/B against it to make sure I wasnt to f*cked up by over processing. ( yes It was level checked )

After a wee while I had a kind of sweetening of the top end and had brought out a little more low to mid attack and she was happy.

I dont have a formal education in this discipline and am probably overlooking some major BooBoo, but it didnt sound too bad and played well in both the car and Boombox..(even with Super mega HyperTurbo Maxx bass applied, as you do)

Did I do Bad??
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MIKE HUNT

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2005, 08:55:18 AM »

Sounds essentially like M/S processing to me.

If it sounds better, you done good.
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Tom Volpicelli
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maxim

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2005, 06:27:35 AM »

terry wrote:
Quote:

I have found only one way to truly widen a stereo image without losing anything in the centre, or acquiring phase problems. But is is somewhat physical. It involves picking up speakers and moving them, and an extension of cables......


just being facetious, but you will lose something in the center if you do that

perhaps, if you push them closer together, you might overcompensate by making your mixes wider than usual
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Yannick Willox

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2005, 08:17:26 AM »

No,no.
What you have to do is put the two speakers next to each other.
Then make a broadband absorbing baffle that starts between the two speakers end ends on your nose (you can even make a cutout for your face).

This way you have no cross-talk, and a 120-180 degress wide stereo stage (like headphones, but out of your head).
(you can try this with a really long pillow, or a matress)

But try mastering like this with a client in the same room ...

Shocked
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Yannick Willox
Acoustic Recording Service

compasspnt

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2005, 08:41:04 AM »

Yannick Willox wrote on Sat, 16 April 2005 08:17

No,no.
What you have to do is put the two speakers next to each other.
Then make a broadband absorbing baffle that starts between the two speakers end ends on your nose (you can even make a cutout for your face).

This way you have no cross-talk, and a 120-180 degress wide stereo stage (like headphones, but out of your head).
(you can try this with a really long pillow, or a matress)

But try mastering like this with a client in the same room ...

Shocked

Yannick,

Can you post a photograph of yourself employing this technique?  I'd like to try it, but I want a demonstration for a guide first!
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compasspnt

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2005, 08:42:39 AM »

maxim wrote on Sat, 16 April 2005 06:27

terry wrote:
Quote:

I have found only one way to truly widen a stereo image without losing anything in the centre, or acquiring phase problems. But is is somewhat physical. It involves picking up speakers and moving them, and an extension of cables......


just being facetious, but you will lose something in the center if you do that

perhaps, if you push them closer together, you might overcompensate by making your mixes wider than usual


Don't be stupid Max.  As the speakers are widened, to maintain the centre, you must toe them in more and more, eventually even facing towards each other.
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maxim

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2005, 08:49:30 PM »

peerhaps, i could stretch my ears with fishing hooks and rubber bands
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Yannick Willox

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2005, 05:27:27 AM »

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 16 April 2005 14:41

Can you post a photograph of yourself employing this technique?  I'd like to try it, but I want a demonstration for a guide first!


Sorry, I didn't take pictures, and my experimental setup no longer exists. 1/ I moved and 2/ the results were so frighteningly good that I had to abandon the tests. The mono image was less colored than a typical stereo setup (less crosstalk between L and R ears), the image was huge and very precise. Anyway, you can't work like this with someone else in the room...

Anyway, the pictures would look extremely silly, and I don't look so good in profile  Laughing
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Yannick Willox
Acoustic Recording Service

compasspnt

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Re: Widening Stereo Image?
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2005, 06:55:19 AM »

Yannick Willox wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 05:27

compasspnt wrote on Sat, 16 April 2005 14:41

Can you post a photograph of yourself employing this technique?  I'd like to try it, but I want a demonstration for a guide first!


Sorry, I didn't take pictures...

Anyway, the pictures would look extremely silly, and I don't look so good in profile...



Exactly why I wanted to see the pix!  Especially in public view!
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