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[Arf! Mastering]

We ME's all know the musical destruction wrought by "hotter than thou" mastering.   We're not the only ones - the artists and producers know also - don't think for a minute that they can't hear  it.  So why, for example, would a seasoned producer such as Dan Huff(LeeAnn Rimes "This Woman") now send his mainstream productions to young ME Adam Ayan to be steamrolled to the point of ridiculous?  Dan has had his stuff mastered in the past by country's best guys.   What is it that makes pros who sure know better to settle for this kind of abuse?  Why track and mix in the best rooms with the best engineers and the most exclusive gear only to trash it all for release?  Why will no mainstream producer take a stand and step away from the trend?

[Level]

3 words:

Lack of confidence.

It would seem that "join the bandwagon of lets be hip and follow the last model with big sales" is much more "important" that producing a high quality product.

Face it, us 40 and 50 something year old folks are no longer "hip".

[Arf! Mastering]

I don't think that flatter than a pancake lifeless mushy sound has anything to do with young, old, hip, or not.  There are plenty of young groups that are not doing it - Coldplay, The Shins or Zero 7 for currently popular examples.   I don't think Dan Huff said "lets crush the last breath out of the new LeeAnn Rimes record so we can be hip."  (er, cool)

[bblackwood]

Maybe he's supposed to be cool because he's Bob's latest protege...

Other than that, I have no idea how's he's getting gigs.

[Level]

Quote:

Maybe he's supposed to be cool because he's Bob's latest protege...

Ouch!

[j.hall]

what part of that quote was a "zinger"????????????

[jackthebear]

I'm gonna step in and defend Adam. First of all he's a kewl dude (irrelevant to the actual mastering), but I've had this loudness discussion with him and he also laments the situation, My bet was that he was under instruction by the producer to go the hack.

Maybe he's getting gigs because people have confidence in him because he's BL's boy.

You just don't land a gig at Gateway and have a room built for you by being a shmuck. Adam has paid his dues and deserves the current success he enjoys.
He may not be to everyone's taste but then again who is?

Cheers,

[jackthebear]

AlanS wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 03:22

Why will no mainstream producer take a stand and step away from the trend?

Because people (especially in the upper echelon) are always trying to please the um & ah.............sorry A&R mooks. Nobody wants to feel left out in the loudness competition.

I also believe age has nothing to do with it....if anything I think people prefer to go with the more experienced cats with the long discographies.

Most of the top MES in the world are late 40's to mid 50's and still going strong.

Cheers,

[Arf! Mastering]

jackthebear wrote on Mon, 21 February 2005 20:36

I'm gonna step in and defend Adam. First of all he's a kewl dude (irrelevant to the actual mastering), but I've had this loudness discussion with him and he also laments the situation, My bet was that he was under instruction by the producer to go the hack.

That is all well and good, I've no doubt he's a fine and intelligent person, but last year I bought some top county CDs (Martina McBride, Keith Urban etc.) and for the FIRST TIME EVER with country I was totally surprised by how over-compressed and totally inverted they were - I mean literally to the point of death metal.  I saw the ME credited as Adam at Gateway.  He had taken it WAY beyond what anyone had done before in  mainstream country.  Hank Williams, Denny Purcell, Doug Sax, or Glenn Meadows cut hot but they would never utterly destroy records.   Then I found more and more new top country CDs with the same brutal treatment, all by AA.   My guess is that the producers involved could have easily "ordered" their regular guys to crush it, but probably ended up going to AA because he already cut "louder" and the stuff was selling, though likely the sales had little to do with the extreme compression.    It just shows that great artists and great mixes can survive almost any abuse, but the sad fact is the industry seems to have   convinced itself that the abuse is a key part of the success.   Either that, or no one wants to take a chance not being the loudest.  So, good for Adam, I'm glad he's successful and making money.  Maybe now that he's got the business and the trust, he can consider dialing it back a bit.  You still have to look in the mirror in the morning.

[Level]

My issue with all of this is why would anyone want to pay all the "extra dough" to get a smashed product with degraded sound quality? Why would an experienced ME with one half million in equipment and monitors minus the room even need that level of equipment if they are going to destroy a production?

What it must be is this:

Certain people holding the checkbooks simply will not accept a quality job with breathing room and dynamics. I see absolutely no need to invest 75K in a mastering console and 60K in monitors and amplifiers if what I am asked to do is equal in quality to what someone could do with an Alesis 3630 and a pair of fisher "salad bowl" speakers and a soundblaster card. This is simply how horrible some of these "top flight jobs" sound.


Am I "right" to reject jobs where the 'powers that be' want it louder than californication on a ballad? In my Heart, I want to and have to do what sounds correct within the formats and the genres and associated tunes.

DVD's are not being smashed to death. Why are CD's allowed to?

We have griped about this ad nausium. I would rather do 40 jobs a year of high quality mastering and 5 years down the road, listen to it and it sound good than to prescribe to doing a hatchet and sledgehammer job..personally.

Get this:

I will do death metal at -13.5 rms track average and chorus's of -9rms but to do country pop at anything above -15 is simply an abortion.

I am in a niche market and I guess I shall stay there.

Put me down officially as anti Mafia Level.

[ammitsboel]

AlanS wrote on Mon, 21 February 2005 19:31

There are plenty of young groups that are not doing it - Coldplay

So you wouldn't consider Coldplay a "LOUD" album?
I think it's a good album, but when I listen to it I always find my self imaging how great it could have been...

[eligit]

i checked the last coldplay record on the meters.

slammed all the way.

it sounds pretty smooth but the choruses are the same levels as the verses and that is just not right.  the drama just goes away...

[TotalSonic]

Adam certainly has a nice looking room - wouldn't mind a pair of Sovereign's myself -



Anyway - has anyone ever tried contacting these "Mastering Mafia" nominees to get some feedback from them regarding the situation around the squashed masters in question prior to "calling them out"?  Just seems like professional courtesy.  

I was about to slag a certain ME who actually has a really nice facility after he provided an unbelievably clipped, crushed, and over high endy hip-hop master for transfer to vinyl that was being problematic - but then got in touch with him and he detailed to me the horrors of how the mixes had come to him and how he had tried some various  expansion techniques to little avail.  He actually ended up redoing the master going further with trying to restore it - and it actually turned out a lot better for the transfer.  Seriously nice guy who WAS concerned with not delivering total baked product - and I'm really glad I held my breath until I could get more of the lowdown from him.  Anyway - all I'm saying is that maybe it'd be nice to invite some rebuttals before slagging.

As far as why there is the continued trend to crush to total unpleasantness - one big factor I think is that delivery format is more and more the iPod.  The other thing is that I think people have actually gotten a lot more accustomed to much higher levels of distortion on recordings.  Both things that I think are bad trends!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[jackthebear]

Quote:

Maybe now that he's got the business and the trust, he can consider dialing it back a bit.  You still have to look in the mirror in the morning.

I reckon if AA does that he will only lose his clients. The bar has been set and no-one wants to be quieter for no other reason other than that. This is the incidious climate we live in. If you can't stand the heat.......
I'm sure Adam has no problem with his reflection in the morning or any other time of day.

I also hate the hypercompressed thing, but we have bills to pay and if the client ASKS for it LOUD, he's gonna get it as far as I'm concerned! As it has happened here there have been instances where the client has had a change of heart and decided to re-do it quieter. Great!!!!!
But it's no reason to say " I told you so". Remember we deal with egos as well as our own.

All we can do is try to suggest to the client what would suit best. It's a delicate juggling act.
Ultimately it's in their hands. There's no point trying to be a martyr.

[bblackwood]

jackthebear wrote on Mon, 21 February 2005 17:24

I reckon if AA does that he will only lose his clients.

Possibly. Could be that he simply defaults to that as many other mastering guys now do, not in an effort to help achieve the artist's goals, but simply to keep the cash register ringing. And if he's worried about losing his clients, well, I think all the mafia guys should have thought of that before deciding lining their pockets was more important than striking the balance between what one can and what one should do.

Sorry, but I'll never accept that this pattern is forced on anyone. Sure, it's rather common for people to request loud records, but when everything someone cuts is crushed and sounds that bad. Add to the fact that many of us deal with the exact same clientele week in and week out without fielding these "constant requests" for louder records and you start to realize that it's not just the producers, A&R guys, etc. that are to blame....