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Author Topic: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed  (Read 26812 times)

compasspnt

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2005, 04:35:23 pm »

andy_simpson wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 14:33

47 on everything.....but of course!
I'm thinking that the B's would've used a 47 for the drum overhead if they weren't so concerned about SPL regulations.....
Wink

Btw, Terry, what kind of EMI channel strips, and how much use do they get - how would you describe the sound?

Andy

47 into 1176 - doesn't work on what?


Hi Andy,

By the way, what was the mic that one sees hanging over Ringo's kit in the photographs?

My EMI channel strip is a two channel "Mic Cassette Mk III," model number "TG 12345/622A, EMI Ltd., England."  The features are:

Bass EQ (no freq specified, non changeable) +/- 10 in 2 dB steps
Presence EQ @ .5, .8, 1.2, 1.8, 2.8, 4.2, 6.5, or 10k, +/- 10 in 2 dB steps
Pan (stepped)
Echo send
2 Cue sends
Comp OR Lim on each, w/settable "Hold" and "Recovery."

The faders are what I call the "Over the hill to grandmother's house we go" ones you see in the photos.

Once when I had it open, I found a hair inside the fader box.  Of course, it was obvious to me that this was John Lennon's hair, which had fallen into the faders as he listened to a playback of the vocal overdub of "Strawberry Fields."  So I put the hair into an envelope, and have it somewhere.

The sound of these to me is somewhat reminiscent of a Neve 1081...not really warm, but very strong and a little "grainy."  I really do love the sound of this box, and have used it a lot as mic pre's, and even line-in on the stereo mix buss at times.  There is an undefinable apparent loudness/presence boost when things go through it...or at least I imagine there is!

47 into an 1176 not working on what?  Sorry I don't quite understand.  I may have said that the acoustic guitar sound in question is available from 176, but not from 1176...?

Thanks,

Terry
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wwittman

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2005, 11:16:16 pm »

I think the mic you're talking about over RIngo is an STC 4038, innit?

I've recently made two records, one moving a Gefell UM70 around for almost everything, and another using a UM900 (which is an incredible mic.. but pricier)

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William Wittman
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compasspnt

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2005, 11:44:47 pm »

wwittman wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 23:16

I think the mic you're talking about over RIngo is an STC 4038, innit?



Yes, the 4038 is in some pix, but I was referring to one I don't recognise seen in some of the Lewisohn book photos, hanging pretty high over the snare.  Looks somewhat like an EV, but I'll bet it's not, with pencil body going to a larger head, pointing downward.
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Michael Greene

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2005, 02:27:29 am »

It sounds like your talking about the AKG D-19.  A talk back mic that G.E. started using on the drums.  You can find them now on ebay for stupid amounts of money because they were used on some Beatles albums.  I am sure they sound great.  But I have to ask if you were to run a Radio Shack Hi-Ball through all that amazing classic gear would it sound great also?


Laughing  Shocked  Laughing
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Michael Greene

Andy Simpson

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2005, 07:53:32 am »

Terry, I think (as mentionned by someone else) that the O/H on ringo's kit was some kind of old AKG dynamic (infact, I'm sure I remember somebody describing it as "AKG's answer to the sm57"). I personally love a 57 for overhead.....

Re. the EMI channel strips, are they the solidstate strips used on the later recordings or the old tube ones?

Also, do you pay much attention to transformers and impedance in your signal path? Ie. do you consider pre-amp input impedance relationships with transformer coupled mics?

Andy

Btw, the "47 into 1176, doesn't work on what?" in my sig, was a bit of rhetoric....I meant to suggest that you could not beat a 47 limited by an 1176 on any source - which seems to be bourne out by beatle records Wink
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2005, 02:34:42 pm »

Michael Greene wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 01:27

It sounds like your talking about the AKG D-19.  A talk back mic that G.E. started using on the drums.

The D-19s weren't simply talk back mikes! They played the same role that 57s did in the United States. I bought one out of curiosity but found that anything it would do, an EV RE-15 would do better. The thing to understand is that RE-15s cost as much as U-67s did during the mid '60s in England.

wwittman

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2005, 05:05:10 pm »

Ah, yes the D-19.
It was one of those 'everywhere' dynamics for a while.. like 421's.

It's more of a tom mic, or close drum pick-up than a true 'overhead' in thsoe pictures whcih is why I was confused.

I think Geoff for a while had one like that and another coming round the floor tom side, plus a KM-54 on the snare.
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William Wittman
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compasspnt

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2005, 05:23:32 pm »

Just in case any of you have wondered about the value of using totally different mic pre's, instead of a console based one, here is a quotation from the Internet about how Tommy Lee's drums were recently recorded.  PLEASE BEAR IN MIND that this is someone else, NOT ME doing this:

"On the kick drum we use a [Neumann] FET U47 through a Universal Audio 610 mic pre into a Lang PEQ2 EQ," Baseford explains. "We also had a Sennheiser 421 on the kick going to a 610 mic pre into a Mercury EQP and then to our secret box, which will remain nameless. We also used a Shure 520 ('The Green Bullet') into an old Ampex 350, which is what we reach for when we're going for something trashy. The kick drumhead we used was Ambassador coated. We left the front with no holes, just a regular head.

"On the toms we used an Audio-Technica AE3000 going into a 610. A few inches back we had an Audio-Technica AT4047 and that was going into a Neve 1073. We put a Pultec EQP1 or 1A3 across the tom as well. We were using the AE3000 to trigger the AT4047 through a Drawmer gate - the AT4047 is gated.

"For the snare we used the Audio-Technica AE5100 and that was going through a Neve 1081 and into an 1176 and also a Pultec MEQ5. We had an AKG D19 going into a 1081 and a Shure SM57 on the bottom snare. We also had a 57 that fed an Ampex 350 . . . the 57 was gated and EQ'd through a Focusrite ISA430 before it hit the 350. That was just to get some 'gank' on the snare. The hi-hat was a [AKG] 451 into a 610.

"About four inches above Tommy's head we had a Coles 4038 feeding an Ampex 351 going to an 1176. Right next to that there's a RFT bottle mic; the one with interchangeable capsules. It has an M7 capsule on it. The RFT was going into a Manley Vox Box.

"Our room mics were two RFT's going through 610s as well. They were spread really wide, almost at the side of the kit. The cymbals were B&K 4011s going through the dbx 786."



There; now you know.  (Ww, especially take note and learn!)
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wwittman

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2005, 11:00:57 pm »

(laughing)

Thanks, Terry....
and I'm sure it blows Abbey Road away.

after all that, when exactly did they run the Beat Detective? <g>
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William Wittman
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dylancw

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2005, 08:46:01 am »

This outboard pre thing must be, as stated earlier, an artifact of having a desk with bad pre's.  (Or a bad desk in general, or no desk...)

From my personal (limited) experience...

A friend of mine (who is a great engineer) had a system using outboard pre's (API, Neve, UA, GML, Millenia, Pultec) and Pro Tools HD3.  (He also had a nicely rebuilt MCI 24 track.)  Monitoring was through a simple line mixer...  It was perhaps a near ultimate realization of the 'right pre for the job, everything outboard' mentality, Lynn Fuston's mic pre shootout notwhithstanding.

He recently purchased a Neve 8068.  WOWOW it sounds great.  Clean, open sound, yet cohesive.  Easy to make something sound great, (if it's great), easy to hear problems with the mix, harder to make glaring errors.  And far fewer patches to outboard gear.  (Just sending auxes to the plate, or a 224xl...)  It was much more work to get something sounding great with the direct to protools setup.

It seems like no contest to me...  
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wwittman

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2005, 02:28:31 pm »

Exactly, dylan

as far as "fixing up" an MCI... did he have it bolted to the anchor line?
<g>
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William Wittman
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rphilbeck

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2005, 10:25:10 pm »

compasspnt wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 17:23

Just in case any of you have wondered about the value of using totally different mic pre's, instead of a console based one, here is a quotation from the Internet about how Tommy Lee's drums were recently recorded.  PLEASE BEAR IN MIND that this is someone else, NOT ME doing this:

"On the kick drum we use a [Neumann] FET U47 through a Universal Audio 610 mic pre into a Lang PEQ2 EQ," Baseford explains. "We also had a Sennheiser 421 on the kick going to a 610 mic pre into a Mercury EQP and then to our secret box, which will remain nameless. We also used a Shure 520 ('The Green Bullet') into an old Ampex 350, which is what we reach for when we're going for something trashy. The kick drumhead we used was Ambassador coated. We left the front with no holes, just a regular head.

"On the toms we used an Audio-Technica AE3000 going into a 610. A few inches back we had an Audio-Technica AT4047 and that was going into a Neve 1073. We put a Pultec EQP1 or 1A3 across the tom as well. We were using the AE3000 to trigger the AT4047 through a Drawmer gate - the AT4047 is gated.

"For the snare we used the Audio-Technica AE5100 and that was going through a Neve 1081 and into an 1176 and also a Pultec MEQ5. We had an AKG D19 going into a 1081 and a Shure SM57 on the bottom snare. We also had a 57 that fed an Ampex 350 . . . the 57 was gated and EQ'd through a Focusrite ISA430 before it hit the 350. That was just to get some 'gank' on the snare. The hi-hat was a [AKG] 451 into a 610.

"About four inches above Tommy's head we had a Coles 4038 feeding an Ampex 351 going to an 1176. Right next to that there's a RFT bottle mic; the one with interchangeable capsules. It has an M7 capsule on it. The RFT was going into a Manley Vox Box.

"Our room mics were two RFT's going through 610s as well. They were spread really wide, almost at the side of the kit. The cymbals were B&K 4011s going through the dbx 786."



There; now you know.  (Ww, especially take note and learn!)



That's sad.  Just sad.  Who the hell is minding the store?  Confused
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Lee Flier

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2005, 10:40:20 pm »

wwittman wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 23:00

(laughing)
after all that, when exactly did they run the Beat Detective? <g>


More importantly, how many of those drum hits ended up being replaced with samples?  Very Happy

maxim

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2005, 10:44:05 am »

back in this threads...hi, all (seems just like yesterday...)

william,

what do you think is the process for degradation of sound from multiple preamps?

does it make it sound too heterogenous?

if that's the case, is that just something to be aware of, and work with, rather than avoid?

i would think, choice is always better than not (albeit more dangerous in the wrong hands)

i mean who cares what tommy's drums sound like (if they remain unheard, like the lonely tree in the forest)?


cheers
max
paris, france
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Ross Hogarth

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Re: The Outboard Mic Pre Thread...Renamed
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2005, 11:10:52 am »

Lee Flier wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 19:40

wwittman wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 23:00

(laughing)
after all that, when exactly did they run the Beat Detective? <g>


More importantly, how many of those drum hits ended up being replaced with samples?  Very Happy



yeh man, first i eq it, then i compress it, then i flange it, then i doblee it, then i dbx it, and THEN I MUTE IT ....
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