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Author Topic: Now Enterprise closes...  (Read 15114 times)

Norwood

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2005, 09:19:27 PM »

henchman wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:44


And it's those kind of situations that are a really bad example.

To spend only 3 days to record anything but a single song, and then hope it will be as good as anything else on the radio is a bit laughable.

If you can't afford 6 weeks in a studio to record an Album, then you need to find a cheaper place that suits your budget.

Time and good people make great records. Not 3 days in the Hit factory.





It is exactly that attitude that is putting those studios under.  It is just not true.  Who other than signed artists can afford 6 weeks in a studio.  By this logic, there would be no great albums by indies.  Some of the greatest albums I have ever heard were by independent artists who definately didn't spend 6 weeks in a studio.  Do you really believe what you wrote?  Do you sell you studio time in blocks of 6 weeks, and if a client can't afford it  say, "well then I'm afraid your album will be substandard." ?

I could go into a studio now and come out  in 3 days come out with something great.  Maybe not a full length album but more than one song.

Does anyone agree with me or am I alone?
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Michael Norwood
Wood Bros. Productions

Rail Jon Rogut

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2005, 09:22:31 PM »

The professional studio doesn't come with a first engineer.. it comes with an assistant... and at Oceanway (when I was on staff) that meant you paid for an engineer.  The studio would recommend about 5 engineers, some of who were on staff and you'd hire them to engineer -- you're not going to get a good engineer for less than $50/hour -- most qualified engineers will charge between $75/hour and $100/hour.

As with most things in life - you get what you pay for.  Just having the room and the gear doesn't guarantee you're going to walk out with a professional product.  It takes skill and talent to actually use the equipment.

Rail
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Recording Engineer

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2005, 09:24:19 PM »

Quote:

you're not going to get a good engineer for less than $50/hour -- most qualified engineers will charge between $75/hour and $100/hour.



Same as 1987....

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Curve Dominant

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2005, 09:51:42 PM »

norwoody wrote on Thu, 10 February 2005 02:19

henchman wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 17:44

And it's those kind of situations that are a really bad example.

To spend only 3 days to record anything but a single song, and then hope it will be as good as anything else on the radio is a bit laughable.

If you can't afford 6 weeks in a studio to record an Album, then you need to find a cheaper place that suits your budget.

Time and good people make great records. Not 3 days in the Hit factory.



It is exactly that attitude that is putting those studios under.  It is just not true.  Who other than signed artists can afford 6 weeks in a studio.  By this logic, there would be no great albums by indies.  Some of the greatest albums I have ever heard were by independent artists who definately didn't spend 6 weeks in a studio.  Do you really believe what you wrote?  Do you sell you studio time in blocks of 6 weeks, and if a client can't afford it  say, "well then I'm afraid your album will be substandard." ?

I could go into a studio now and come out  in 3 days come out with something great.  Maybe not a full length album but more than one song.

Does anyone agree with me or am I alone?


I agree with you 100%.

henchman

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2005, 10:07:09 PM »

Roland Clarke wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 21:36


Peace.

I have to say I totally dissagree.  Some of the great sessions of the past were done in very short spaces of time.  
Roland



Yes, with gredat players. And it's more of an exception than the rule.

I have done whole records in 10 days with satisfying results. A song a day.

However that didn't include pre-pro. So to walk into any studio with $4500,- and expect to walk out with something spectacular in three days is a too much to expect.

jfrigo

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2005, 10:54:40 PM »

David Schober wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 18:15

Ryan Moore wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 10:13


Would that happen to be the Peruvian Snow mirror mod?




Yup Ryan....that'd be it.  I thought someone would figure that out!

And J.J. I sit corrected...B Range it was.


But with A Range mods according to the website. Also it mentioned that it is still in service in an L.A. studio and has recently been through its 10th refurb. Anybody know where it is?
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Norwood

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2005, 11:09:39 PM »

Quote:

So to walk into any studio with $4500,- and expect to walk out with something spectacular in three days is a too much to expect.


Firstly, I didn't say I expected something spectacular, I said I walked out with something I was ashamed of.  I knew I wasn't giong to get an "spectacular" album for $4500 and 3 days of recording.  I wanted something respectable.  I did not get that.  I should have been able to, even with an assistant.  And is a "song a day" the threshold for good recording?  If you record two in one day does that mean they aren't good?

Secondly you are focusing on the wrong part of what I said.  I was talking about the fact that these studios are not going under because of the volume of gear or the number of so called "engineers" and their project studios, but rather the fact that there is good stuff coming from these "engineers" and project studios.  The big studios survived for a long time because they had a virtual monopoly on recording, obviously they dont anymore and people are beginning to realize that you can make quality recordings outside the walls of a traditional studio.  That is the reason for the crisis. IMHO

Please debate this, not my first studio experience.
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Michael Norwood
Wood Bros. Productions

Phil

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2005, 12:16:03 AM »

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Phil Nelson

David Schober

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2005, 01:30:26 AM »

norwoody wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 22:09

Quote:

So to walk into any studio with $4500,- and expect to walk out with something spectacular in three days is a too much to expect.


Firstly, I didn't say I expected something spectacular, I said I walked out with something I was ashamed of.  I knew I wasn't giong to get an "spectacular" album for $4500 and 3 days of recording.  I wanted something respectable.  I did not get that.  I should have been able to, even with an assistant.  And is a "song a day" the threshold for good recording?  If you record two in one day does that mean they aren't good?

Secondly you are focusing on the wrong part of what I said.  I was talking about the fact that these studios are not going under because of the volume of gear or the number of so called "engineers" and their project studios, but rather the fact that there is good stuff coming from these "engineers" and project studios.  The big studios survived for a long time because they had a virtual monopoly on recording, obviously they dont anymore and people are beginning to realize that you can make quality recordings outside the walls of a traditional studio.  That is the reason for the crisis. IMHO

Please debate this, not my first studio experience.


Michael, the point that's being debated is your assertion that the problem your project was the studio and not you or the band.  From your post, it but it appeared  that you went in pretty green.  (I'd assume your band was as well)  After that bad experience you then studied up, worked hard and worked in your own space which gave you the time to get some experience in recording under your belt.  The studio may have been substandard. But it's hard to get great results your first time out...and not fair to blame the studio.

It's a little cause and effect fallacy.  A and B occurred together.  Therefore A is the cause of B.    

The point you made in your original post, although you made it without knowing it... was not that a commercial studio isn't worth it.  What you showed is that working hard at your craft is what makes a better record.  You had five years of woodshedding since that first project.  I'd bet that with what you've learned, you'd do a million things different in that studio.  A good producer and engineer with a great band that's well rehearsed band can get great results in three days.  But a young producer and band just starting on their first time into the studio may not get great results for weeks.  If they're truly gifted they might, but even the Beatles had George Martin their first time in. (and he replaced their drummer!)

As for your point about studios having a monopoly in the past, you're of course correct.  Let's be honest...not all commercial studios are good.  I worked in one in West LA that had a huge resonance every time the singer hit a certain note.  And there are some home situations that work great...but a lot don't.  At least in the former, there was probably someone somewhere who knew a bit and tried to make a proper recording room.  And when you want to start recording more than a couple of things at once, home studios sometimes...often start showing their faults.


You're right about the studios closing...but not for the reason you think.  The reason these places are going under is not just that home recording has arrived...it's simple supply and demand.  Commercial studios most of the time no longer offer something you can't get at home.  Since home recording is almost on par for the kind of music made today, it lowers the demand for rooms like Cello and Hit Factory.  So there's a glut of supply.  Glut of supply=drop in prices.  It's that simple.  Once commerical studios can once again offer something home studios can't (scoring stages don't have home studios as competition) then there could be a change.  Frankly, I don't think it will happen.  Music being made today just isn't heading that way.
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David Schober

jfrigo

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2005, 02:02:57 AM »

David Schober wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 22:30


You're right about the studios closing...but not for the reason you think.  The reason these places are going under is not just that home recording has arrived...it's simple supply and demand.


You're on to something there. Think about it. This industry is small potatoes compared to a number common industries out there. However, it's very appealing to many who consider it glamorous. Everybody who ever got a guitar for their birthday seems to want to own a studio, and there simply isn't enough paying work to sustain this many expensive hobbies. The glut (supply) of people who want "in" vs. the amount of money generating music work out there (demand) is unequal. Too many wannabes, some with deep pockets. People don't get into this because the busines plan makes such good sense and the market is so open. Too much supply; not enough demand. As a wise man (or was it a wise ass?) once said, you'd be better off investing in an asparagus farm.
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Norwood

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2005, 02:04:30 AM »

Admittedly I was "green", I was not however unrehearsed.  It probably would have been a good idea to have gone into the studio with more recording knowledge under my belt but is that really the musicians responsibility.  Because of my position on the recording totem pole I have recorded many many first timers.  Not once has anyone walked out the door of my studio with something of lacking quality.  Whether or not they were good songs is debatable, but the recording quality was there. That was all I wanted in my first time out, an accurate representation of the music I was playing, a flattering representation would have just been a bonus.

Quote:

You're right about the studios closing...but not for the reason you think. The reason these places are going under is not just that home recording has arrived...it's simple supply and demand. Commercial studios most of the time no longer offer something you can't get at home.



ie. quality recording
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Michael Norwood
Wood Bros. Productions

J.J. Blair

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2005, 10:52:04 AM »

Not to digress from the digression, but I think there is something Enterprise was obviously not paying attention to.  If everybody can allegedly record at home these days and chances are somebody's going to end up mixing in protools anyway, what's the thing you are going to want to go to a studio for?  Generally, it's doing your basic tracks, right?  Who here wants to do their basic tracks at a place that only offers SSL 8000s, 9000s and Neve Capricorns (which sounds about as interesting as a John Tesh concert), when you can get a better rate on rooms with vintage class A consoles?  If you ask me, somebody wasn't thinking.  I mean, how much is a 101 channel J9000?  What, $1.25 million?  That's just fucking absurd to have two of those in this day and age and expect to make your loan payments.  

BTW, does anybody know if the rental company will be shutting down as well?  That seems like the one business that would actually benefit from home studios.
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David Schober

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2005, 11:34:59 AM »

You're totally right JJ.

The one thing that large commercial studios can really do that home studios can't is medium to large sessions.  And if you're tracking, it's a no-brainer to prefer to work on a good vintage or even modern API console.

You're also right about rental companies.  I have a friend here who was formerly manager of one of the main studios here in Nashville.  He was happily lured away to run one of the larger rental companies and they're doing lots of business.  He's under a lot less stress now renting gear rather than trying to get bookings that pay enough to keep the doors open.

By the way, the studio that my friend previously managed at one time purchased an SSL Axiom for their mix room.  That console lasted about 15 minutes and unless they worked out some deal with SSL, no doubt they lost their shirt on that venture.  Limited sample rates and other issues made the room not desireable...even for mixing.
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David Schober

ted nightshade

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2005, 12:00:19 PM »

My experience is similar to, but different from, norwoody's.

I spent $4500 to record in a studio for 3 days. I shopped the engineer here on the forums, found a guy who seemed to be up to interesting stuff and who I had a rapport with. And who is apparently a very capable professional engineer.

But that was AFTER I'd had a project studio for some years, and made a whole lot of mistakes and finally figured out what I was after. So, I knew exactly what I wanted- a better room than I have here at home and somebody else to tape op, and someone to do the engineering so I could focus on performance. And the chance to try out a more expensive tape machine than my own.

We rehearsed and recorded the rehearsals very intensively in the weeks before entering the studio, as well as doing a few live performances.

We spent an entire day trying to get a good sound in the way overtreated, concrete, Bill Putnam designed room from hell, and I ended up having to place the mics myself. Then we recorded 65 takes in 2 days.

I was sure the sound quality was going to be way better than my home/project studio efforts, so we re-recorded a bunch of stuff we had already recorded at home, and some new stuff.

Turns out, the stuff we did at home sounds a lot better to me. Better room, is a lot of why! Better performances too- not surprising, that studio was not a performance space as much as it was an assembly/manipulation space.

But we did get 4 tracks that will be on our album. The sound is a real compromise, but those are our best performances of those tunes. Everything else we tried, we did better at home, recording and performance, both.

But the main difference between my experience and norwoody's- I don't think I can record other people's acts, regardless of style and approach, well. If their approach is very purist acoustic in the room like mine, I think I could do very well. There are artists who I definitely could record, here at home, better than any of their big budget big studio records have been done. But for a whole lot of approaches to recording and especially assembly-oriented and processing-oriented stuff, forget it. I can't do it.

I can do my specific thing as well or better than anyone out there- but I could never pretend to be able to record anyone who walked in the door and do it well.
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Ted Nightshade aka Cowan

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Jeff Goodman

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Re: Now Enterprise closes...
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2005, 12:03:23 PM »

The Enterprises rental company closed about a 2 months ago and everything was auctioned off shortly after.

Jeff
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