Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jon Autry]

Rader Ranch wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 11:44

pipelineaudio wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 23:17 Dont have a family if you cant support them. brilliant advice for the whole world.... i don't think you'll be saying that (adding for inflation) in 5-10 years, and not because the gigs are gone.

Yes. You're spot on. That *is* brilliant advice for the whole world. If more people adhered to this, there'd be much higher quality of life for all concerned.

Part of deciding whether you can support a family before starting it, is deciding if you're willing to make the personal sacrifices necessary to deal with financial complications that things like inflation or "no gigs" may cause down the road.

"Am I willing to give up recording engineering and install refrigerators for Best Buy if it feeds my family and engineering doesn't 5-10 years from now?"

If you start a family I feel you have an obligation to put them first. If your other interests/passions could never take a backseat to the lives you bring into this world, you shouldn't be adding them to the world's population.

Just my opinion though. Very obviously a minority opinion, at that.

Take care,
Jon

[henchman]

Jon Autry wrote on Sat, 19 February 2005 19:00

As Steve said, he is willing to sleep on the floor and eat Ramen to do the job. I personally think that's an admirable thing. I just now caught up on this thread and after reading Mr. Albini's responses I have a highly enriched respect for his integrity and putting his money where his mouth is. I was previously unaware of the way his studio is structured economically (aside from the rates themselves) and I'm impressed, not shocked, as many others have been. Jon

I have never said I don't have respect for Steve or the way he runs his studio. It works for him, and that's great.

I also don't find it to be unreasonable to expect a decent wage for doing a days work. H2000 turned that into "expecting financial security". Big difference.
I never talked about steady increase in pay either.

[henchman]

Jon Autry wrote on Sat, 19 February 2005 19:11

Yes. You're spot on. That *is* brilliant advice for the whole world. Take care, Jon

I see no reason why you shouldn't have the expectation to provide for your family, if you so please.

I guess I consider what I do for a living to hold more value than other people out there.

[djui5]

Shivaun O wrote on Sat, 12 February 2005 19:10

Engineers are probably one of  the most important parts of the equation in making a record. Best wishes. Shivaun O'Brien Sound City Studios

Thank you

I couldn't agree more.

[canada]

David Schober wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 20:52

If they don't like the deal, they don't have to sign.

That's a horrible way to look at it.  When all you dream about for years is the ability to communicate your burning life to someone via an album you make, beating your head against a fucking wall trying to get someone to help you realize your vision and make it happen, your solution is "if you don't like the deal, don't sign it?"

We're not going to make it better?  The alternative would be what, DIY?  So you're for all the major rooms closing and artists seeking asylum in their bedrooms with a Mac and a 300 dollar plug in suite?  Wow, we really are doomed.

And since when did most bands that would be handed a deal like this get to pick their producer?  News to me.

[henchman]

canada wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 15:55

David Schober wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 20:52   If they don't like the deal, they don't have to sign. That's a horrible way to look at it.  When all you dream about for years is the ability to communicate your burning life to someone via an album you make, beating your head against a fucking wall trying to get someone to help you realize your vision and make it happen, your solution is "if you don't like the deal, don't sign it?"

Actually, that's exactly the way to look at it.

It's that starry eyed, I'll do anything, attitude that gets bands into deals where they WILL get fucked. Bigtime.

As a band, you should always walk into a deal negotiation with the attitude that you are wiulling to walk away from it unless you are happy with the deal as YOU want it to be.

Otherwise you WILL end up being forced to use whoever the label wants you to use.
Which alot of times means you are working with who THEY want. Including wasting piles of money on producers who do nothing, and mixers who are getting paid way too much.

If I walked into a deal where they wanted to pay the mix engineer more than the cost of the record, I would make sure that it was a non-recoupable cost. If the label believes they need to spend that kind of money on a mixer, let them pay for it.

[canada]

But one in five performers thinks about it on this level, obviously knowing what I now know about the business I would do things differently.  But you can't say people aren't herded by a label, with the vision of realizing their dream as the carrot on the stick...

I'm out of this thread now, but it's in my opinion that this practice is borderline fraud.

[Lee Flier]

Jon Autry wrote on Sat, 19 February 2005 19:11

"Am I willing to give up recording engineering and install refrigerators for Best Buy if it feeds my family and engineering doesn't 5-10 years from now?" If you start a family I feel you have an obligation to put them first. If your other interests/passions could never take a backseat to the lives you bring into this world, you shouldn't be adding them to the world's population.

Amen to that!  If only more people felt that way.

Yes, it sucks when you can't make a living anymore doing something you love doing, when you used to be able to.  I can certainly sympathize with that.  However, keep in mind that the vast majority of the world's population has NEVER made a living doing anything they remotely like, and never will.  And many work their asses off at jobs they hate just to survive, and STILL are at the whim of a fickle economy and/or the whims of their employers.

Many others also choose to do what they love even though they know it will likely be an unstable or financially unrewarding endeavor. And often sacrifice having a family and other creature comforts for the chance to do so.

So... if you're in a position to make a big paycheck doing something you really love, count your blessings.  And also save your pennies, because it may not last.  Certainly nobody owes it to you.

[jwhynot]

I just want to add here -

that y'all are pretty depressing!

JW

PS When I look at my prospects, and take into account how I spend my work days, I feel pretty damn good.  And support my family.

[henchman]

jwhynot wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 22:43

I just want to add here - that y'all are pretty depressing! JW PS When I look at my prospects, and take into account how I spend my work days, I feel pretty damn good.  And support my family.

Hi John,

Hows it going? Haven't seen you around here or any other forums for awhile.

What are you doing these days?

[jwhynot]

Hi M. Hench.

Been around, tend to keep a low profile online because, well, in the words of Garth Hudson, "Too many weirdos".

I think this board has some interesting posters, but still plenty who, shall we way, talk outta they hats.

You know what I mean.

Doing the same as ever - producing, engineering, mixing, writing, playing and discussing music.

May be up in the 'couv later this spring... we'll see.

Hope all is well with you too.

JW

[Lee Flier]

jwhynot wrote on Sun, 20 February 2005 22:43

I just want to add here - that y'all are pretty depressing!

How so? (and HI, long time no see! )

Quote:

PS When I look at my prospects, and take into account how I spend my work days, I feel pretty damn good.  And support my family.

Well, glad to hear it!