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[antti]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 16:56

i'm interested to see if more bands start going totally independent. i'm pretty convinced that a good band, with a great live show and a good sounding record can make a decent go of it completely by themselves. it will be interesting if this sort of thing starts becoming the norm.

It is (and has been) the norm for underground punk and jazz.. some metal too.
It also can be the only way for a new band/artist, especially if specializing in music that major and most independent labels are too scared to touch. It is also (in many cases) a faster way to 'recoup' the costs than being signed to either a major or an independent. Obviously it is very difficult to sell lots of records this way (up to a few thousands) without a distribution deal (although
internet is a great and safe place to do it as well as selling them on gigs). If the band/artist does it DIY with a good distributor(mostly independent) then serious amounts of records can be sold. Most definately a good way to start if nothing else. And obviously the band/artist will keep 100% publishing (before they'll sell it away). No advances here but then again getting a big one is quite rare these days (as far as I know) and quite often you'll have to pay it(recoup)
back.


My band played with this one Japanese 'punk/metal' band last year who sold
400 t-shirts in 3hours(

[j.hall]

Antti Uusimaki wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 20:01

It is (and has been) the norm for underground punk and jazz.. some metal too.

it has not been "the norm" for quite some time here in the states.

most bands that do everything DIY don't tour, don't promote their stuff, and are happy to sell a few CDs to their friends and family.

i'm talking about a full on release that is managed by the band.

out of town shows, an attempt to get college radio play and possibly some corporate radio play, internet marketing and online purchasing.

merch is a must.  with good looking shirts and various other things you can make a ton of money.

i also think that playing all ages shows is the way to go.  young kids are much more into hearing new music, and they have more disposable incomes

[antti]

j.hall wrote on Tue, 08 February 2005 15:13

[most bands that do everything DIY don't tour, don't promote their stuff, and are happy to sell a few CDs to their friends and family. i'm talking about a full on release that is managed by the band. out of town shows, an attempt to get college radio play and possibly some corporate radio play, internet marketing and online purchasing.

We are talking about the same subject.. bands managing themselves.
It can be done.. at least in the underground scenes. I know and have worked with tens of people who make their living by doing it DIY. Metal & punk bands, jazz artists. Some of them do get radio play in college
and even corporate channels.. mostly in 'alternative' programs but still..
It is impossible to get it played in a day time show in corporate radio unless
you have 'contacts'.  Nearly all of these bands/artists do get their album reviewed in major genre specified magazines too. Internet marketing ofcourse and online purchasing as well as selling them on gigs and special record stores. Most important way to market it/get exposure is to play live (as it should be imo). If you are not willing to play 100+ gigs a year you ain't gonna survive just by doing this unless a major or big independent will pick you up before you died. Tough game.. A lot of these bands/artists have their own 'fake' labels to make it look more 'professional'. Works great for getting gigs and a distribution deal.  I don't know any 'pop' artists doing it this way..

[spankenstein]

j.hall wrote on Tue, 08 February 2005 09:13

Antti Uusimaki wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 20:01 It is (and has been) the norm for underground punk and jazz.. some metal too. out of town shows, an attempt to get college radio play and possibly some corporate radio play, internet marketing and online purchasing.

But how do you get those out of town shows. Great demo/CD or not, it helps a LOT to know someone. I've known quite a few bands that started out plannig a tour and were met with lots of slammed doors. Even in town, with he same demo CD last year we couldn't get crap, now that I've been making myself go out more often shows just get handed to us. It's not about the music, it's about the palm pushing.

Quote:

i also think that playing all ages shows is the way to go.  young kids are much more into hearing new music, and they have more disposable incomes

Kids LOVE music! The last all-ages show we played was amazing. We borrowed a drummer and were loose but they ate it up. All those hormones pent up in one little room and they just go berzerk.

The sick part is that I'm too old to go palling around with 16 - 18 year olds and I'm too young to settle on the mellow country-rock.  

[hollywood_steve]

is it good, bad, indifferent?

It's a horrible situation.  Personally, I did not get involved in this industry so I could sit in my bedroom in front of a computer screen and assemble "music" from a bunch of samples.  I was lucky enough to witness some large sessions in my youth and thrilled at the spectacle of 50 or more musicians playing together in a fantastic sounding huge room, as engineers, techs and other assorted staff ran around in what seemed like total bedlam.  But then the conductor would raise his baton, the room would fall silent and magic would happen.  If that has truly been lost to us, then the "industry" isn't worth a bucket of warm piss.

[NelsonL]

spankenstein wrote on Tue, 08 February 2005 17:09

j.hall wrote on Tue, 08 February 2005 09:13 Antti Uusimaki wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 20:01 It is (and has been) the norm for underground punk and jazz.. some metal too. out of town shows, an attempt to get college radio play and possibly some corporate radio play, internet marketing and online purchasing. But how do you get those out of town shows. Great demo/CD or not, it helps a LOT to know someone. I've known quite a few bands that started out plannig a tour and were met with lots of slammed doors. Even in town, with he same demo CD last year we couldn't get crap, now that I've been making myself go out more often shows just get handed to us. It's not about the music, it's about the palm pushing. Quote: i also think that playing all ages shows is the way to go.  young kids are much more into hearing new music, and they have more disposable incomes Kids LOVE music! The last all-ages show we played was amazing. We borrowed a drummer and were loose but they ate it up. All those hormones pent up in one little room and they just go berzerk. The sick part is that I'm too old to go palling around with 16 - 18 year olds and I'm too young to settle on the mellow country-rock.

All ages, underground venue type shows are amazing. A lot of college towns have this sort of thing-- especially for hardcore shows. But that term hardly applies to what I'm up to these days, so my knowledge of that sort of thing is about seven years stale.

So if you want to play those kinds of shows out of town then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

If you want to play regular type venues-- all ages or otherwise-- then you need to get yourself a booking agent. Somebody who represents several bands will have a lot more sway and credibility than you solely representing yourself.

How do you find a booking agent?

Labels, other bands, you have to network and find someone who likes what you do because at this level they're probably doing it in their spare time.