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[stevieeastend]

I wanted to write:

"Maybe the songwriting gets worse because of the fact that with the computer you do not have to be that creativ anymore in order to create a  song." (instead of "good song")

[Johnny B]

Have there always not been small studios? Most were turning out junk, but some turning out the real deal!

Sure, there are now more home recording set-ups, but how many turn out the real deal? I know it is not exactly comparable, but there have always been smaller studios and cheap places to record, so this may not be as big a factor as it would at first appear.

What would happen if the majors did not spend tons of money on music videos? Would that money go into creating better songs that sound better? Maybe.
And what would happen if the majors figured out a formula or a way to package many music vids together so that they could actually be released in a manner similar to a major motion picture? Sort of a "musical" meets "concert film" meets "music vids" and the combo results in a major motion picture release? That would change the dyanmic, I'll bet.

But I also think that if the damn Federal Gov't had not ruined the radio station onwership rules, and if the damn Federal Gov't actually enfored the Anti-Trust and Anti-Monopoly Laws, there would be more opportunity for people to make a living.
Take Clear Channel, one song in heavy rotation, on a ten song list or whatever, not much diversity there, and very little opportunity for songs falling outside that favored heavy rotation list. Bring back the independent stations and more opportunity will open up for more people.

Time to write your Senators and Congresspeople and complain.

 

[Eric Bridenbaker]

steveeastend wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 13:10

I wanted to write: "Maybe the songwriting gets worse because of the fact that with the computer you do not have to be that creativ anymore in order to create a  song." (instead of "good song")

Perhaps the computer is facilitating the completion of songs by people who would not have been able to without the technology. Good on a participation and enjoyment level, though it's easy to see how they may not necessarily end up with a great song.

Cheers,
Eric

[stevieeastend]

Johnny,

Do you think that music videos are that much of an financial factor in the whole production? I don?t think so.

And what you mentioned in terms of radio... I thought this is especially true for europe as I thought diversity in the US has to be wider. I thought there are no or very few market limitations but when you write ".... bring back the independent stations..".... oh boy. It really seems to be a world wide problem...
I think radio is one of the major problems why it is so hard within the supply sector to provide more choices.

I would like to add another question: Do you think that there are actually not so many talented people out there anymore or are the A&Rs not able to discover and "raise" them?

cheers
steveeastend

[Eric Bridenbaker]

I can't see the point in blaming piracy for dwindling recording budgets, or CD sales (though CD sales went up 4% over 2004 here in Canada). The problem is IMO better viewed as one of supply and demand.

A good place to start is to take a look at the urgent demands for fast online music catalog distribution, and inexpensive, functional tracking rooms... I hope that the studio industry will not repeat the mistakes record labels have made in the past, by railing against these demands, instead of capitalizing on them.

Trends in globalization, digital convergence, and new information highways have set in motion an unprecedented change in society that will not be stopped, slowed, or dodged in any way. And by the time the news hits the paper or trade mag, it's already too late. If this sounds dramatic, then I've suceeded in making the point.

On the bright side these changes will take us to new places where the music industry can enjoy a new boom by meeting demands as they emerge.

Cheers,
Eric

[Geoff Grace]

henchman wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 09:45

Geoff Grace wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 18:32 Of course, it's easy to forget that DVD sales are a secondary profit center for the movie industry whereas CD sales are the sole profit center for the record industry. Generally speaking, the cost of filming and marketing a movie is recouped during theatrical release, allowing the motion picture industry to only have to worry about recouping DVD manufacturing costs when selling DVDs. On the other hand, CDs must bear the entire burden of recouping the cost of recording, marketing, and CD manufacturing before turning a profit. Best, Geoff Bad example. Movies cost way more money to make.

I realize that movies generally cost more to make. That's why people get upset at the notion of CD prices being higher than movie prices, and that's why I made the point I made that movie prices are essentially paid in installments and therefore cumulatively higher.

henchman wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 09:45

When's the last time you heard of an album costing $500 million to make?

When, in the history of the record industry has a CD sold enough units to justify that kind of budget? Even Thriller couldn't have recouped that kind of cost. If a company spends $500 million to make a movie, it can only be because they're confident of making more than they spent; and once again, movies make more money than records, in part, because they have more streams of revenue (ticket sales, DVD sales, pay per view, etc.).

Even so, $500 million budgets are hardly the norm for the movie industry, and some major label CDs actually do cost more to make than some independent movies. So, while there is without a doubt a higher average budget per movie than per CD, there is also an overlap in production costs between the two industries.

The point of all this, simply put, is that there isn't a level playing field between the motion picture and record industries. The movie industry spends more money and it makes more money. DVD sales account for 50% of the money the movie industry makes, but CD sales are by far the main source of income for the record industry. Therefore, how can anyone make an even comparison between the cost/profit ratio of a $20 DVD vs. the cost/profit ratio of a $20 CD? The notion that it's outrageous that CD prices should be similar to DVD prices is, at best, over-simplistic.

Best,

Geoff

[Johnny B]

Steveeastend,

Yeah, I think the music vids play too much of a factor in all this. Think about it, when the majors decide to get behind the "push" (ie marketing and advert hoopla) a large part of that calculation is the music vid. And what do you see? Mostly pretty people who, shall we say, rely more on looks that on any other factor like musical or singing or songwriting talent. So to distract attention from any talent lacking in major artists in the real essentials, you get these big budget music vid productions, lots of pyro-technics, special effects, choregraphed dancers, and so on. And that all costs big money, money which goes into the bean counters' budgeting process.

In the long run, it is sort of an unholy alliance between the marketing and accounting people, and what you get is more schlock. In stark contrast, in the old days, the artists would be nurtured more in the essentials, and real Record Men  called the shots. Looks were secondary. That's, no longer true.

So bring back the Independent Radio Stations, de-emphasize Music Vids, and bring back the real Record People. I think you would quicky see a return of great new music, and the record industry would be extremely healthy once again.

Again, I suggest people write to their Senators and Congresspeople to complain about Radio Station Monopolies. That's a good first step.

[Bob Olhsson]

Johnny B wrote on Sat, 05 February 2005 17:33

...in the old days, the artists would be nurtured more in the essentials, and real Record Men  called the shots. Looks were secondary. That's, no longer true...

This wasn't really true. We were very much the exception at Motown because we were really an artist management company that owned our own record label.

The biggest difference I see is that there was plenty of work playing music for talented youngsters. They could quit their day jobs long before hooking up with a record label. Even then, MOST artists to this day only score their first hit on their second label deal.

Today's dominance of marketing is due to the fact that advertisers are now picking up most of the tab for exposing music. This includes radio, TV and even the larger live venues. Record labels can't change this but you and I can by restarting the regional music scenes that used to provide the major labels with their best talent.

[stevieeastend]

I totaly agree with you but, ...how can you start a region music szene when there are radio station monopolies? Unfortunately this seems to be true for the U.S. and europe!!!

cheers
steveeastend

[ted nightshade]

steveeastend wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 01:07

I totaly agree with you but, ...how can you start a region music szene when there are radio station monopolies? Unfortunately this seems to be true for the U.S. and europe!!! cheers steveeastend

Good question. What to do about the radio monopoly? Deserves it's own topic.

[Rob Darling]

You don't need radio.  Radio is how you sell gazillions of records, but to make a start, you need to perform.  Everyone loses sight of this today.  It is hard work, but it beats the hell out of having a real job if you're good enough.  Once you are a great performer, you will make good records, make good records, you will get played.  

[Giovanni Speranza]

I couldn't agree more.

[Bob Olhsson]

steveeastend wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 03:07

...how can you start a region music szene when there are radio station monopolies?

Same way they did in the early 1950s!

Something a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact that MOST  music formats grew directly out of live music scenes. In many ways radio's stagnation is at least as much a symptom of the problem as it is a cause.

We started an "industry" forum as part of the MARSH with the idea of bringing people together from all parts of the industry to look at how we can work together to fix these problems.

http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/12/

Please bring your experience and ideas.

[Eric Rudd]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Mon, 07 February 2005 18:25

steveeastend wrote on Sun, 06 February 2005 03:07 ...how can you start a region music szene when there are radio station monopolies? Same way they did in the early 1950s! Something a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact that MOST  music formats grew directly out of live music scenes.

Exactly. That's one of the things I talk about with new artists. Playing live is a great tool....NOTHING provides more immediate feedback for that new melody, or that new song structure, or that new solo you've practiced, or that new harmony part....than a live audience.

Eric