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[henchman]

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in.
They have no valid point of view whatsoever.

[drew]

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 15:41

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in. They have no valid point of view whatsoever.

yea, like when guys who work on movie soundtracks try to act like they know something about making records.







couldn't resist.

[henchman]

drew wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 16:52

yea, like when guys who work on movie soundtracks try to act like they know something about making records. couldn't resist.

Except that I have made records for a living.
And I have been making a living from working in Studio's both music and Post, going on almost 20 years now.


And I STILL do music. Except budget is not a deciding factor for me to work on something, but wether I like the Artist AND the music.

[Level]

Hench, who are you pointing out here?? Do you know that person?

I agree we have some armchair "engineers" posing but really, was their a point to it? Someome you want to call a dumbass publically?

[henchman]

Level wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 17:03

Hench, who are you pointing out here?? Do you know that person? I agree we have some armchair "engineers" posing but really, was their a point to it? Someome you want to call a dumbass publically?

No. I am not going to finger anyone specifically.

If the shoe fits, so to speak.

[Level]

I got cha. The bottom line is this business changes every 2 to 3 months and those who can read it and fit the vibe of the moment, is in.

Like a football game, if you don't have pass receivers down field, you have nowhere to throw the ball. (distribution)

When I am working with a new client, I ask them if they have their offensive receivers in place with a clear path...if I become involved to the point of helping them get in stores. Sometimes it is good to see what is planned after they leave.

(reference, Clients I develop, not mastering jobs)

[ted nightshade]

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 12:41

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in. They have no valid point of view whatsoever.

Does the lay person have a point of view? The artist? The fan? I'm thinking so.

From clear out here where I can't tell what the fluck is going on, seems like the bigtime product is gettin' pretty thin. It's been really good before though, and now and then you can find something satisfying.

If nothing else, I'm one of the slobs who would be paying to do my little vanity project in such a palace, if such a palace can stay open long enough for me to get wise.

Took me a while but I figured out that the acoustic environment has everything to do with the potential of a performance. And that's it's awful hard to tell what you're listening to if the acoustics aren't sympathetic. I been told a number of times that there's some fine rooms in this place, all set up especially nice for recording. Seems like a damn shame not to have it working.

[Curve Dominant]

How did such an interesting professional discussion suddenly turn into a juvinile catfight??

Oh, hi Henchie.

Anyhoo...

I thought Nika's comment was spot on. I'd like to add that what we're seeing is a natural evolutionary cycle. All the prosumer gear is doing, is filling demand which apparently wasn't able to be met by big studios (for better or worse).

People love to bitch about today's pop music, but where was that music produced?

But people love to bitch about home studios at the same time.

Can't have it both ways unfortunately.

[henchman]

ted nightshade wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 18:55

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 12:41 I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in. They have no valid point of view whatsoever. Does the lay person have a point of view? The artist? The fan? I'm thinking so. .

As far as the music goes, yes. They do have a point of view.
But as far as working in professional studio's, no. They don't have a clue.
Most of these people haven't ever even used professional gear, yet they like to talk about why it's so outdated and they can do everything in their bedroom/garage/basement.

[henchman]

Eric Vincent wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 20:12

How did such an interesting professional discussion suddenly turn into a juvinile catfight?? Oh, hi Henchie.

And which one of my statements do you consider a catfight?

And keep your little snide rem,arks to yourself please.

[Nika Aldrich]

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 14:13

I'm sorry Eric, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in. They have no valid point of view whatsoever.

...

Quote:

And keep your little snide rem,arks to yourself please.

[Curve Dominant]

It's useless, Nika, he'll never get it.

Anyway, the thread is titled "Cello Studios Closes down."

If Henchie wants to moan and groan about who is or isn't qualified to post on GM's board, he should start a new thread.

Personally, I judge people more by the quality of their work, than by how many TV rerun overdubbing hours they've clocked.

[Submissive Flats]

U da man Curve u undersand the superhype digititis better than albini or hench or any a dees posers. no one more qualifikated than u curve m-box forever! who needs acoostical spases when u got the finest anolog front end-tooobs.
Filly rules.

[Kindly forgive my rather gauche faux pax: I should have said "filly roools!"]

[henchman]

Eric Vincent wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 21:23

It's useless, Nika, he'll never get it. Anyway, the thread is titled "Cello Studios Closes down." If Henchie wants to moan and groan about who is or isn't qualified to post on GM's board, he should start a new thread. Personally, I judge people more by the quality of their work, than by how many TV rerun overdubbing hours they've clocked.

I had no idea this was moved down here.
You want to judge people by their work, fine.
I don 't usually blow my own horn about what I'm doing or have done unlike some of us. But here you go.

I'll put my Platinum Record for Engineering the 4 Non Blondes Hitsingle "What's Up".
And my Award for Best sound for a dramatic series "The Collector" on the table.

What's the name of your platinum record?

BTW, you talk about being professional.

Starting out I was lucky to work with people like Santana, John Lee Hooker, Jimmy Vaughan, Sheila E even Celine Dion (Who, BTW, was very, very nice to everyone), Walter Affanasief.

Being a professional means making a living from your profession full-time. Which is what I do.
I make a full-timne living from being an Audio-Engineer. And from various facets of Audio-Engineering and music production.

Currently I am working with Simon Collins. Phil's son.
I've received very positive comments on what I've done with him  from Phil. Wich counts for more than your snide remarks regarding my work in post-production.
Which, BTW can be quite fun. I've met some pretty nice people. Britney Murphy, Jennifer Beals, Alan Cummings, Montell Williams.

I guess someone like Gary Rydstrom is a wanker in your books as well.

Back to you.

[henchman]

And one more thing, this taken form your website:

Quote:

Right...So, Why Pro Tools?? Quite simply: Pro Tools is by far the most advanced digital recording, editing and mixing platform that exists today.

No, It's not the most advanced. It's just your opinion.

Quote:

More importantly: Pro Tools affords producers and artists the advantage of "Cross-Platform Compatibility."

Again everything about this statement is just plain wrong.

Crossplatform means that you would be able to open a Pro-Tools sesion in other DAWS.
Whereas PT's is all about PREVENTING that.

[Fibes]

Quote:

Being a professional means making a living from your profession full-time. Which is what I do. I make a full-timne living from being an Audio-Engineer. And from various facets of Audio-Engineering and music production.

Obviously the cats at Cello and The Hit Factory are no longer professional.

Some of the best records made as of late have been done by what you would classify as "hobbyists." i still find those albums to be important.

OTOH, i'm not defending Curve, I'm simply stating that in this climate "you gotta make what you can get."

I consider myself a factotum, something that comes in quite handy in the studio environ.

Looking back on last years stats (at tax time) i made 14 albums last year; not including EPs, demos and other crap. If 60% of my income comes from another area am i a hobbyist? All That Jazz said (in december) one of my productions was one of the top ten productions of last year. WTF?

Living in a small market has forced me to think outside of the box, it also keeps me fresh and safe from burnout.

That said, competing with amateur blowhards on a daily basis is frustrating because the people are getting dumbed down due to the overuse of words such as: Pro, professional, first rate, high quality or whatever. Words mean nothing anymore, i live and die by my work and I expect others to do the same.

Keeping, diversified, a competant staff, decent gear and a strong work ethic has worked for me. Having to turn tricks on the street to pay the huge nut of a giant room/console/mic locker would still put me into the "hobbyist" category 'cause that shit is pretty hard to fly; look at Cello and T.H.F.

BTW i'm not attcking or defending either of you, merely stating a point of view.

Hobbyist out...

[henchman]

Fibes wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 12:45

BTW i'm not attcking or defending either of you, merely stating a point of view. Hobbyist out...

I don't find post any kind of attack. It's constant remarks like this from Eric that piss me off, and force me to come on these boards and defend what I do for a living.
Eric just doesn't relaise what a sitting duck he is, and how easy it can be to take personal shots at him.

Quote:

Personally, I judge people more by the quality of their work, than by how many TV rerun overdubbing hours they've clocked.

[Sahib]

henchman wrote on Tue, 01 February 2005 20:41

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Part-Time/Hobbyists making comments on an industry they've never actually worked in. They have no valid point of view whatsoever.

In my opinion that depends on the subject matter of the comment. If the person has no experience on a, say technical issue that he is commenting on then after the second line you the experienced will deciphere him that he is a bull shitting idiot. But there are so many other issues in this industry that one can make a comment without working in it. So I wouldn't go as far as saying that they have no valid point of views.

[henchman]

Sahib wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 15:46

In my opinion that depends on the subject matter of the comment. If the person has no experience on a, say technical issue that he is commenting on then after the second line you the experienced will deciphere him that he is a bull shitting idiot. But there are so many other issues in this industry that one can make a comment without working in it. So I wouldn't go as far as saying that they have no valid point of views.

So, do you think ,going to a Movie, buying some books, then buying a digital camera to make a lowbudget movie make syou an expert on how bigbudget movies are made.
And how large Post-Production facilities should be run?

It's the same thing.

Having a Digi 001 in your bedroom does not make you an expert on how a major fcility works, or how major sessions are run.
No matter how many books you read.

Spending a couple of thousand hours in such sessions gives you a bit better idea on what goes on behind the closed doors of the control room.

[Otitis Media]

Exactly, Hench.  Having also done audio post and music (on a much smaller scale, thank you!) I can unequivocally say that running a business is totally different from knowing how to run a console.  In fact, having also run my own business, I discovered rather quickly that the person running the business should be a BUSINESS PERSON, not an engineer/producer/etc.  

There are a lot of people talking out their ass on this thread, attacking the few who are actually sizing things up realistically, rather than romantically.  

A damn shame about both the facilities this week - hopefully they are re-invigorated soon.  

[Sahib]

henchman wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 21:18

Sahib wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 15:46 In my opinion that depends on the subject matter of the comment. If the person has no experience on a, say technical issue that he is commenting on then after the second line you the experienced will deciphere him that he is a bull shitting idiot. But there are so many other issues in this industry that one can make a comment without working in it. So I wouldn't go as far as saying that they have no valid point of views. So, do you think ,going to a Movie, buying some books, then buying a digital camera to make a lowbudget movie make syou an expert on how bigbudget movies are made. And how large Post-Production facilities should be run? It's the same thing. Having a Digi 001 in your bedroom does not make you an expert on how a major fcility works, or how major sessions are run. No matter how many books you read. Spending a couple of thousand hours in such sessions gives you a bit better idea on what goes on behind the closed doors of the control room.

Let me make a bit sense out of this. I did not make a comment on any of the things that you mention. In contrary I said that you would easily pick out the idiot with a Digi 001 in his bedroom. However,this industry (I'll take it as music)is not all about sitting behind the mixing desk and tweeking with the knobs. I'll say again that there are so many other areas that one can make a comment without having worked in this industry. For example, publicity. You do not have to have worked in music industry to make a comment on how to create publicity for your artist. You may have worked in an opera company as a publicist but this does not mean that your views on creating publicity in music industry is invalid. So if you are narrowing down your opinion on the recording aspects of the business then make it clear but do not generalise.

[Curve Dominant]

Hey, Henchie,

It's nice to see you've been enjoying my website!

I had a feeling you of all people would especially appreciate that technical page.

[henchman]

Eric Vincent wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 18:08

Hey, Henchie, I had a feeling you of all people would especially appreciate that technical page.

I would call it a page of disinformation.

[malice]

[quote title=Fibes wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 18:45]

Quote:

Some of the best records made as of late have been done by what you would classify as "hobbyists." i still find those albums to be important.

Henchman said "part time hobbyist" ...

not "hobbyist" ...

there is a nuance I guess


malice

[Fibes]

Is there such a thing as full time hobbyist? If so, that's where it's at. No have to workee... knuck, knuck.

Owning a room is a PITA.

A total fucking PITA.

I have some anon doucebag who is a psychotic liar dogging me on a local music website right now. The reason? Because I figured out his new alias by his writing style, it's pretty plain to see... He's certifiable, talking shit about my work, simply because he is a sociopathetic liar and i caught him. I can't say or do what i would like to everyone knows his issues but since I run a business I have to tread lightly. The disadvantages of being a known non-anon entity sucks.

So anyone want to play pile on the liar? If so, PM me.

The industry is in transition, as it always has been. You either move with it or get run over. The bigger you are, the harder it is to zig zag...    

[Level]

Anyone talking trash about your work is simply Jealous of it Fibes.

People talk "trash" and make up storys about me all the time. If anything it "helps" business. Smart people can see right through the bullshit. Example being, I mention an event I was honored to be in..it gets twisted into something much larger than it really was. Then THAT get elaborated on. before you know it, the detractors will have you doing amazing feats, far outside of anything imaginable.

Take a look at Chris Moon. The facts of his accomplishments are here:

http://www.pro5.com/moon/bio1.htm

Look at the last paragraph. I know this to all be true.

I saw threads which exaggerated these accomplishments where he actually ATE the head hunters...

Just ignore it fibes. Best advice one can give. I have gigs of bullshit printed about me, total exaggerations of detractors and high school dropouts. If only they knew who was laughing at them...

[Han S.]

Eric Vincent wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 23:08

Hey, Henchie,

Eric, I am one of the individuals here who finds it quite annoying that you like to belittle people like Henchman, who's name is Mark btw.

Being a recording dwarf yourself, you should have more respect.

@Henchman: je moet die gast laten lullen, hij is er al jaren op uit om rotzooi te trappen, leest te veel boeken die hij niet begrijpt en is een kok ergens in een hotelkeuken, die graag met de grote jongens wil meepraten, maar het is geen onaardige jongen.

[Fibes]

Thanks to everyone who lended their support. We sussed out the liar in no time, it was comical, very sad but...


It's tough times to be running a room right now but there are a few  ideas that have been touched upon which will remain needs no matter where technology takes us: Real engineers with talent and well done acoustic spaces. I run a project studio and the thing i long for more than anything is a better sounding room. I'd trade some gear to have that... As per the talent in the shop, who knows?

The room is essential IMO. I feel that a lack of access to good rooms (and engineers) is what's killing sonics more than anything.
The bar has been lowered to "acceptable" and we are all suffering through it. Time to adapt. It's good to know that Steve does records from 1-5000 dollars, it's my bread (no butter). it is a reality and sometimes can be a great surprise but the oneness is totally on the band in these scenarios. I for one like that.

Thanks again y'all.