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Author Topic: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A  (Read 63369 times)

Lee Flier

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2005, 11:31:52 AM »

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 05:00


what kind of substance would you like?


How about simply not confusing opinion with fact?  Opinions have substance and facts have substance, but trying to enforce your opinions on others as fact has none.

If you don't like a particular product such as ADAM monitors, it's certainly your right to say you don't like them.  We all have our opinions about which gear is great and what sucks, myself certainly included.  And I certainly share many of your concerns about the declining quality in many recordings these days.  But don't then say that just because you have this opinion about monitors, it's empirical fact and anyone who likes these monitors must not be paying attention to translation or listening to reference material.

And if you think audio magazines don't contain enough negative reviews for your taste, again you're entitled to your opinion, and you can show your dissatisfaction by not reading the magazine, or expressing your opinion to the editors, etc.  But to then make the presumption that the reason you don't see negative reviews is because we're all kissing ass to advertisers, when you have no idea what's really going on... well that has no substance.

I think if you would simply ASK (like sam did) instead of presuming what people's motivations are, you would get more respect and it would further a more interesting discussion.

zetterstroem

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2005, 12:03:38 PM »

ok.... i hear you....

but i think you put words in my mouth....

but nevermind.....
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JamSync

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2005, 02:49:57 PM »

Samc wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 08:19

I think it would be interesting if lee or KK (or both) would explain the nuts and bolts of the review process in detail.  I don't think most people knows what happens behind the scenes so to speak.  

How are the pieces selected for review, do you or the magazine(s) only review equipment that are submitted by the manufacturer and/or do you/the magazine approach a manufacturer if you think a particular piece of equipment might be interesting?

Do you try, and if so how do you verify claims made by the manufacturers regarding the technical performance of said equipment?  What are your obligations to the magazine and to the manufacturer when doing a review?......etc etc.

Best regards,
Sam  


Lee stated the process in detail. I couldn't really add much. Generally the manufacturers submit things for review and the editors decide who is most appropriate. I don't generally say, "I saw this; you should review it." As you can probably guess, the magazines I've written for usually have far more products to review than they have space for.

One manufacturer did try to rewrite my review a couple of years ago and I said, "give it to another reviewer". It ended up running as I wrote it, although the manufacturer thought I didn't praise the product enough.

Reviewing doesn't begin to pay enough for me to miss the money it if I never do it again. I enjoy and am grateful for the opportunity, but it's an exceedingly small part of my income.

Also, I don't have any great fears that if "someone doesn't like me" I won't work again because my clients don't come from people who read the magazines. They are in the same biz and are essentially competitors, not clients. My clients pay me because I know how to do things and most of them are not technology savvy...they're artists and creators. Most of the people who read the reviews *are* tech savvy and they have no need for my services. Therefore, I don't lose clients if I tell the truth.

Reviewing allows me to learn about new things and communicate that to others...something I don't get to do much in front of clients because most of them wouldn't know what I'm saying.

Samc

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2005, 07:05:16 PM »

Lee, KK,

Thanks very much to both of you for responding to my question.  

There is another question I would like to ask both of you;  Are manufacturers required to pay a fee (directly or indirectly) to the magazine for having their equipment reviewed?  for example, is there some kind of unwritten rule that says it's a good idea to buy advertising if you want your product(s) to be reviewed by the magazine?
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Sam Clayton

JamSync

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2005, 07:50:15 PM »

Samc wrote on Fri, 28 January 2005 00:05

Lee, KK,

Thanks very much to both of you for responding to my question.  

There is another question I would like to ask both of you;  Are manufacturers required to pay a fee (directly or indirectly) to the magazine for having their equipment reviewed?  for example, is there some kind of unwritten rule that says it's a good idea to buy advertising if you want your product(s) to be reviewed by the magazine?


No. Editorial and sales are completely different. As I said earlier, I'd consider it an insult and a strike against the integrity of an editor if she or he ever mentioned the word "advertising" to me. In any reputable journalistic endeavor, editorial and sales separate. THAT'S the "unwritten rule". It's called ethics. I don't even know who works in sales at any of the magazines that have run my reviews.

I'm not saying people can't be bought...I suppose some people will make deals and sell their integrity for a very low price. Fortunately for me, I don't need money that badly and if I never did another review, I'd still be busy doing things I enjoy every day. I think a lot of people in the magazine biz feel that way. There's just not that much money to be made in editorial...and judging from the shrinkage of many of the magazines, there's not much to be made from pro audio advertising, either.

I did have one manufacturer who called me up and told me he was disappointed that   I was doing a review rather than another guy who has his face in a lot of ads. I said, "it's OK if you want to let him review." Then I called the editor who refused to be bullied by the manufacturer, so I did the review. Again, that kind of thing is just insulting and generally people who try to be slimy end up not getting what they want. At least, that's been my experience.

Bill Mueller

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2005, 08:52:42 PM »

Lee Flier wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 11:31

ZETTERSTROEM wrote on Thu, 27 January 2005 05:00


what kind of substance would you like?


How about simply not confusing opinion with fact?  Opinions have substance and facts have substance, but trying to enforce your opinions on others as fact has none.

If you don't like a particular product such as ADAM monitors, it's certainly your right to say you don't like them.  We all have our opinions about which gear is great and what sucks, myself certainly included.  And I certainly share many of your concerns about the declining quality in many recordings these days.  But don't then say that just because you have this opinion about monitors, it's empirical fact and anyone who likes these monitors must not be paying attention to translation or listening to reference material.

And if you think audio magazines don't contain enough negative reviews for your taste, again you're entitled to your opinion, and you can show your dissatisfaction by not reading the magazine, or expressing your opinion to the editors, etc.  But to then make the presumption that the reason you don't see negative reviews is because we're all kissing ass to advertisers, when you have no idea what's really going on... well that has no substance.

I think if you would simply ASK (like sam did) instead of presuming what people's motivations are, you would get more respect and it would further a more interesting discussion.


Lee,

Remember I told you I respected you? I knew there was a reason.

Bill
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #96 on: February 04, 2005, 03:56:49 PM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 21 January 2005 12:43

I've personally used a long range of mix monitors in my studio, including several Genelecs (1031A, 1030A), various Tannoys (Reveal, Ellipse 8 ) , Roland DS90A, Yamaha NS-10, Minipods (cute but useless for mixing), various ADAMs (P11A, S2.5A and S3A).



Say, did you mix my Angel track on the Adams? That is a wicked smashing mix, I'll have you know.

All the best,

Tomas Danko
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Loco

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #97 on: February 04, 2005, 06:12:13 PM »

Lee Flier wrote on Wed, 26 January 2005 18:12

Once again you are badly mistaken.  Did you even read KK's post about how she refused to review a product until they improved it?  And how furious (read: PISSED OFF) the company was?  This happens all the time.  Reviewers have a quite a bit of influence over what manufacturers do and often they will change something before it hits the market, because a reviewer encountered a bug or weakness during the review process.  So to say that "nothing changes" would be wrong.


Grab the latest "Car and driver" magazine (the one with the yellow Boxster) and look for an old review on the Opel Kadett L. They were unmerciful with it and that earned them the respect of the public, but the hate of the entire GM organization. If the car sucks they say it. And, unlike the 60's when they lost all GM advertising, they get more and more advertising and circulation.

Back to the speakers... comparing speakers is hard because they can't occupy the same space at the same time... so their interaction with the room is different. If the differences are subtle it's gonna be hard to tell.
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JDSStudios

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2005, 04:59:24 AM »

Wow, over 5500 views!
When I started this thread I did not think about all this extra commotion.

The last few mixes have been extremely satisfying.
Most if not all of the problems I was having with the Mackies are gone because bass, mids and highs are now extremely well defined with the Adams, for lack of better words.

When I took the first mix into my car, I just smiled... there were no surprises at all. Voice was just where I set it, bass and kick were just right, and the highs were balanced as well.

If I had any problems within 30 days, I could have sent the Adams back.
They are definitely staying.

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ammitsboel

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2005, 06:05:01 AM »

JDSStudios, it seems like they are a big success for you! Congratulations with them, I hope they will serve you well for many years.
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Lee Flier

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2005, 11:19:03 AM »

Loco wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 18:12


Grab the latest "Car and driver" magazine (the one with the yellow Boxster) and look for an old review on the Opel Kadett L. They were unmerciful with it and that earned them the respect of the public, but the hate of the entire GM organization. If the car sucks they say it.


Believe me, if I review anything that sucks I'll say it too.  Hasn't happened yet though.  Should I submit a review that says something sucks (even though it's not my actual opinion) just to earn everybody's respect?  Or maybe I should go out of my way to request a product for review that I think will suck?

Quote:


Back to the speakers... comparing speakers is hard because they can't occupy the same space at the same time... so their interaction with the room is different. If the differences are subtle it's gonna be hard to tell.


Yes I agree... speakers sound very different in different rooms, or different locations in the room, or to different ears.  Anybody considering a monitor purchase should try several sets in their own room before deciding anything.

lagerfeldt

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2005, 12:35:36 AM »

Tomas Danko wrote on Fri, 04 February 2005 21:56

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 21 January 2005 12:43

I've personally used a long range of mix monitors in my studio, including several Genelecs (1031A, 1030A), various Tannoys (Reveal, Ellipse 8 ) , Roland DS90A, Yamaha NS-10, Minipods (cute but useless for mixing), various ADAMs (P11A, S2.5A and S3A).



Say, did you mix my Angel track on the Adams? That is a wicked smashing mix, I'll have you know.

All the best,

Tomas Danko



Hi Tomas!

Thanks mate, glad you like it! I did mix it on the ADAMs, looking forward to getting it re-mastered for the album.

I think the important thing about the 2.5A's is that the mixes translate so well compared to my earlier speakers.

Cheers,

Holger

djui5

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #102 on: March 28, 2005, 12:49:03 AM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Sun, 27 March 2005 22:35


I think the important thing about the 2.5A's is that the mixes translate so well compared to my earlier speakers.

Cheers,

Holger



These are the most honest speakers I've ever heard. Can't wait to get a pair.
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JDSStudios

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #103 on: March 28, 2005, 06:38:50 AM »

Well, it has been a few months now, and many sessions go well into 15 or 20 hours.

The one thing I can say though, is that everytime I go to the costumer's car, he has a smile in his/her face; bass, mids, highs, voice placement and instrument imaging and details are at a level now, that I could have not possibly match with my old Mackies Hr 824s, or the Genelecs 8050s, or the YSM1s.


In one of my last projects, the client used 3 different studios;
at mastering we were all at Phaze One here in Mississauga [one of the largest and most expensive studios around, and also where GM had a session a few months ago].  The mastering Engineer did some processing on the other two studios' songs [bass, highs, compression, etc] but did not touch my 3 songs.

Adam's 2.5A was one of the better investements I did in my studio. The other one purchase I made 2 years ago, that was also excellent, after 10 pairs of headphones, was the Senheizers HD 600.

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John Ferreira
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HankBrice

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Re: Genelecs 8050A vs Mackies HR824 vs Adams S2.5A
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2005, 06:31:59 PM »

Does anybody who's worked with both the S3As and the S2.5As have an opinion as to how the two compare?

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