| jimmyjazz wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 11:42 |
| Fletcher wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 07:05 |
I had one band that recorded a song I wrote about my the ex-partner in a production company I used to have... the singer changed two lines in the chorus and expected a "co-write" credit!!
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As he should have, unless the changes were truly trivial, like a change in tense, etc. (At least that's the way the songwriting is divvied up in Gnashville.)
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Whatever works for you... and I reckon that too will vary from artist to artist... but in my world, if I'm not asking them for "co-writing" on something where I'm changing a line here or a line there, I'm going to expect them to give me the same space... also, in my world, if a song has been brought to the project by me it's because the artist asked for the song, I'm not bringing stuff in and saying "here, perform this". I don't really know/understand all the ways of Nashvegas... I'm a New Englander who does demos that don't get signed
I suppose if it were on something where there was a prayer of it selling, I'd more than likely give up 50% for a line or two in a heartbeat [50% of something is indeed better than 50% of nothing]... but so far, that hasn't reared it's ugly head in my world.
I reckon if you're comfortable with the program then you're comfortable with the program...
| lucey wrote on Mon, 27 December 2004 14:36 |
| Fletcher wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 07:05 |
... but I have an issue with the "being in the control room every minute things are being tracked" statement... I would normally rather rip out my teeth than sit through shit like backing vocals [I may write the parts, but I really hate listening to them being recorded]... and shit like lead vocals... most of the time I'll get the sound, tell the singer/engineer (or assistant) what I want recorded... leave them to record it, come back later and either "comp" it, or criticize it (redo some sections), or both... but I'm really not wild about sitting there and watching them go down [hate it actually].
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Sounds like you're a Co-Producer.
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Sounds like, once again, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
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A Producer is responsible for the overview. This "overview" includes all the work time, not just the product time. The responsibility is not control of every moment, but requires awareness and sensitivity, sense of vision and opportunity recognition. Especially in tracking ... where the little moments are what makes music great, and someone must spot these. The Producer. To rely on the band is Co-Producing at best. Maybe Executive Engineering.
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That's great that you can sum it up in one paragraph... very tidy. The fact of the matter is that in my work I've never done it the same twice... sometimes there is more handholding involved, sometimes there is more writing involved, sometimes the paper work is a nightmare, sometimes it's not too bad... sometimes the best way to deal with the project is to make a few suggestions and get the hell out of the way, other times I've found that the best way to deal with the project is to hire some ringers and tell them what you want. Yes, the "micro-managment" thing sometimes comes into play as well... but more often than not, I hate it when it does.
The little "magic moments" are generally still recorded if you come back later... as the little "magic moments" will hopefully be on the finished product. The question is how you work with the artist to give them the impetus to arrive at a little bit of magic... I have found that often space is the best way to land on that, sometimes it's moving their head to a different space [laughter, pissed off, worried, etc.]
I've found that, at least for me, not being in the room works best as I have a feeling the artist/singer can feel that I generally hate being in the room for every sung note.
Is it possible to hang in the back of the room as a fly on the wall and "observe"? Absolutely. Is it possible to hang at the desk and "manage"... absolutely. There are some singers with whom I've worked that work so quickly that it's a sheer joy and honor to be in the room [it's also mandatory as it would be a stone bitch to try to explain the working process/flow to anyone else]... for the most part, most people don't work that quickly.
As for backing vocals... that, at least to me, unless it's a "support" kind of almost LD Vox part [think Merry Clayton], that it's basically QC of the execution of the part... that damn little "magic" will occur ["damage", yes... "magic", not that I've encountered]
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There are many reasons why Producing requires presence with distance. But we must be present to Produce ... especially with lead vocals!
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Ahhh yes... the Woody Allen school of production ["90% of life is just showing up"]. There are a couple of singers I've worked with that [by a couple I mean more than one, but under 5%] can't have anyone in the room with them while they're singing. They like to run their own machine just like when they're at home. Somehow they seem to project and emote a bit better, somehow they just don't nail it as well when there is anyone in the room or on the other side of the glass. Yeah, you can turn them to face another direction, but it seems that when they're not also running the machine they tighten up... it's a weird phenomenon, at least it's weird to me because the mojority of the time these guys are also the ones that give up the best performances live, just not to an audience that isn't full of annonymous people.
I first heard about the "set up and leave them alone" thing from Michael Beinhorn. I had one guy I was working with who never seemed to give it up right, I knew he had a home studio, I asked him how he felt about giving a shot to cutting vocals in the CR with no one around [the vocal performances on his demos buried the stuff he was doing for the record]... running the machine, moving patches, etc... he seemed psyched to give it a go... the resultant vocal was the best we'd done together [apart/together], so the rest of the vocals were done that way. The brother was exceptionally pleased with the results, as was I.
So... I guess the description of that would be "proximity sans presence". I still ended up doing the final QC, and on a few songs a compilation of a couple of tracks. The bottom line is that it worked... and has worked with a couple other singers as well.
I guess that would be the "giving the amount of space required to let the singer do their fucking job" method of management.
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... but is it possible to be there - and also not be there? It's more than possible, it's necessary.
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Absolutely... sometimes, maybe, definitely... it depends. Some also get into 'micro management'. The project on which I'm about to start in couple weeks is going to be quite "hands on", there is another in the wings that is getting done, or at least started via e-mail... something tells me that it's going to get pretty interesting as it looks like the artist won't be there for damn near all the tracking of the album, and I won't be there for most of the vocals... but everyone is going to be on the same page as the 'pre-production/demo' process is getting damn near down to the note/drumfill/melody line at the turn of every measure.
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70-80% of a record is done in tracking. It's a huge time. Yes comping time is just as important in a digital world, yet if we have integrity, comping should be minimized, not relied upon to cover our irritibility with hanging during lead vocals.
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I did more "comps" in the analog world than I've done since I went "dig"... and IMNTLBFHO, tracking is more like 90-95% of the process... I prefer to leave as few options open in the "mix" process as possible... I prefer to 'mix as I go' be that doing balances and bouncing them or printing with FX, etc. I really hate this "let's wait until we mix to make a decision" crap. If it's recorded with FX going to the cans or coming out of the speakers, those FX are recorded... sometimes the balance is done on the spot, sometimes a bounce later on, but most of the time the decision is made 'there and then' in the inspiration of the moment rather than 'later on down the road'.
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If we're so personal with the band members that there is a heirarchy of who we're 'close' to and 'not', such that we ignore some tracking and are present with others ... we probably need to show more respect to all the artists. And if one of them is uncomfortable with us listening, why are we Producing them? Superficial products are made by superficial relationships IMO.
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Great how you can wrap shit up in a pamphlet sized ideal... unfortunately, in "real life" I've never found it to be that easy. I have found every relationship to be unique, and every project to be unique. I've found that there are some people with whom I've worked several times that we've developed a flow and a rapport that defines how work will be accomplished, and that no two are ever the same.
The only thing that is the "same" about every project is that a bond is formed between me and the artist, which may only have us being the best of friends for the project, but that bond is palpable. It varies in nature from 'drinking buddies' to 'brothers in arms' but we're really all there for the same reason... there are some people who just work best alone, I have found that to recognize and respect that need for space is about the highest form of flattery you can give, but it really is "case by case".
There are times when I've set up 5 vocal chains at the front of the project and check each one against the singer to song relationship at the start of cutting vocals, there are times when one vocal chain is the order of the project. There are times when vocals are done at the end of cutting drums and all instrument overdubs are performed to final lead vocals, there are times when we bounce around between instrument overdubs and vocals in a seemingly random manner [Singer: "I feel like singing now"... Me: "great, as soon as we're done with this keyboard part you're up"]... there are times when everything has been recorded, the rest of the orchestra is dispatched, and the process of vocals begins.
Unfortunately, I can't put it into a nice little pamphlet as every record, every project, every artist is different... there are times to be more hands on, there are times to be out of the building. There are times when just keeping the singer's bitch cunt whore of a girlfriend out of the building will do more for the vocal performance than anything else... in which case the order of the day calls for clothes shopping instead of micromanagment [... and I hate clothes shopping even more than backing vocals].
