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[lucey]

Thomas Brekke wrote on Tue, 14 December 2004 05:30

Ok, I would like a 1073 that does drums, vocals and bass really well. I don't want it to airy and hifi and it need to have substance in the lows. The best price I've been offered on the 473 and power supply, is $2800. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Better deal, anyone......?

Thomas I have the following:

Vin 473
Chandler Tg2
Aurora GTQ2
Api 512b
Altec 1567A
and
Martech mss10


and IMNTLBHO the Aurora is what you want.

The 473 is bright and tight by comparison, and does not have the ass kicking low end or overall beauty of the GTQ2.

The 473 eq is no big deal, the GTQ eq is very cool ...  

and the others on your list are just about as you say.



I use the GTQ2 for drums, overheads, vocals, violins, acoustics voices etc. and someone I know with many actual 1073s agrees that it's the best out there. Yes it has more top and less grit then a vintage 73 but it's got the low end as close as you'll find and it sounds great.

the TG2 is birghter in the high mids and top, and thinner, the 473 is brighterr and tighter on the bottom and lacks the color on the bottom, Phoenix is tame by comparison, NV is similarly off kilter for this sound, Oram is gear to be avoided (sizzly surface mount artifacts), Seventh Circle stuff might be cool(havenot heard it), and the Vintech 1272 is cool as well but darker.

You might like the Vintech 1272?  Or the GTQ2.

[Finstad]

Hall

[Patheticus]

Just to throw in my $.02, I've never had the chance to use any original neve gear so I can't compare, but the x81 sounded like a fat sloppy horses ass to me. I had a pair of them set up to use on kick and snare on a project this summer cause I'd heard about how great they're "excellent" "fat" tone. And all I got was boomy lowend that I had to EQ the shit out of to make it sound somewhat normal. Eventually I just pulled them off and put my Chandler TG-2 on kick and snare. All I had to do was plug them in and push the gain a bit and they sounded like gold. Tired the x81 on overheads too and it just wasn't punchy enough to keep up with the drummer I was recording. Had the same problem with the Vintech 1272.

I've owned the UA2108, Brent Averill API 312's, the API3124, the Chandler TG2, and an FMR RNP. The Brent Averills were definelty my favorite for drums, although they had original 2520 OpAmps in them and not the Advedis. The 3124 rocks too. The api's have such a tight low end it's beautiful. And if you want something a little bigger and a little less focused sounding the TG2 rocks. It really makes toms sound like connons. As for the 2108, it was muddy as hell and really cheap sounding to me. I would take an RNP and an extra $600 any day over the 2108.

[184c]

Quote:

Oh shit... (kicks dirt, stares at the ground), like I haven't heard that accusation a bazillion times. Look ace, M-A has had the opportunity to carry Vintech for years, M-A doesn't carry Vintech because of a consious decision that was based on experience... you want to draw a different conclusion, knock yourself out, the fact of the matter is that nobody in our joint was wild about them, so we don't carry them.

While it is true that you declined becoming a dealer for us about five years ago when we were only making the 1272 based preamps,which was also around the time the MP-2NV was being developed, the only "opportunity" you've had regarding our later products in recent years has been your "opportunity" to attend blind listening tests of our X73 and X73i vs. real vintage Neve 1073's.

These blind listening test "opportunities" were offered to you on several occasions, only after you consistently bashed the X73 and later admitted that you had never given it a proper evaluation. We in no way meant these public offers for you to pick our X73 and or X73i out of a lineup of vintage 1073's, which you have always found reasons not to attend, as being an offer for you to become a dealer for us.

Thanks,
Dallas Upton
Vintech Audio

[mr.T]

Oh, it didn't want to start this again.......

[Fletcher]

184c wrote on Fri, 17 December 2004 22:57

These blind listening test "opportunities" were offered to you on several occasions, only after you consistently bashed the X73 and later admitted that you had never given it a proper evaluation. We in no way meant these public offers for you to pick our X73 and or X73i out of a lineup of vintage 1073's, which you have always found reasons not to attend, as being an offer for you to become a dealer for us.

Dallas, this being the holiday season that's your one free gift... the gift of trying to start some shit to advertise your product.  Any further communication on this will either be done privately, or not at all.

To recap for the procedurally impaired... if you want the nice people of our shop to listen to your stuff, send it up.  No, we didn't get to give it what I felt was a proper evaluation.  A proper evaluation takes a month, sometimes longer [in the case of the truly great shit, less than a month, in the case of stuff on the border more than a month, in the case of the mediocre to piss poor... a bit under a month as we try to find some kind of redeeming quality in it somewhere].

SPL just sent in a Mastering EQ in a big, heavy wooden crate.  Mackie just sent in their latest and greatest pre-amp for us to mess with, there are 3 or 4 mics in the batting order, etc.

I'm going to say this one last fucking time.

I don't listen to anything out of context to make a decision on it.

Period.

Noth-ing.

You sent up a unit to a session I was doing in Atlanta... it was listened to, albeit briefly, in context, decisions were made as to the context of that session and we moved on.

So, if you want me to hear your shit, send it the fuck up so we can put it through it's paces.  I don't know why you're afraid to send us up stuff to listen to?  

If you're unwilling to do follow our evaluation procedure, then shut the fuck up.

Any/every other manufacturer who wants us to check out their shit does that, you my friend are not special.  Your product will go through the same procedure, same scrutiny every other piece of gear goes through... or you don't get to say "we invited you to our party", because I don't go to other people's parties.  They're welcome to come to mine, but I don't go to theirs.

The stuff will get a fair shake... we've been surprised before.  Benchmark surprised us... we never thought in a million years we'd like the shit but guess what, we do.  More recently Apogee surprised the hell out of me.  15-16 months ago I was fighting like a dog to get that crap off our roster... then low and behold they came out with some product I could stand.  The Toft ATC-2 was a serious shocker.  I didn't think that thing had a prayer in hell of being added to the roster... but looky, lookie... it made the team!!

The Horch mic... first time they sent it in I thought they were joking it was so fucking terrible.  Turns out it was broken. The second one they sent over was pretty good... but not special enough to add to our roster.  The third one was a charm, and now it's been added to the roster.  

I know you're into all kinds of wonderful party tricks and shit like that, but the fact of the matter is that we do things our way or not at all.  As you're well aware that's the beauty of having your own company, you can make up your own rules, your own procedures.  If your rules and your procedures preclude you from sending up stuff for us to give a try, then it precludes you from sending up stuff for us to give a try... but understand that the last experience we had with something is the experience we'll go by.

Last time I tried your stuff it wasn't "a Neev"... it was "eh".  I'm sure it's a fine $3-400/channel pre-amp or what ever the hell people charge for it, but as far as I was concerned, it wasn't a fucking Neev, nor was it any special... it was OK, not the best tool for the task at hand, we moved on... if it had gone through 15 or 20 sessions like that then perhaps I might have drawn a different conclusion... but it didn't, so I didn't.

Want to change my mind?

Send up some stuff for us to try that blows my mind.

If you don't think I'll say what I really think of it, then you insult me to no end.  If you do think I'll say what I really think of the stuff, and feel like it's good enough to pass our little evaluations... send it in.

Is there a part of "send it in" you're having a hard time understanding?

BTW, don't bother responding with words.  I will remove any/all response posts to this thread.  I will not debate this.  Been there, done that, you got your free advertising out of it, that's the end.  

If you want to respond with action, I promise you we'll give it a fair shake.  If you'd like to join it for the evaluation process... I'll give you the number for the local "Extended Stay America" motel... book a month there and feel free to be present whenever we're using the thing.

This is the L-A-S-T time I'm going to say this... the ball is in your court... do what you will, but the initial decision is all yours.

Have a nice day.

[mr.T]

 

[Duardo]

Quote:

Mackie just sent in their latest and greatest pre-amp for us to mess with

]

I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of that one.

-Duardo

[football]

Dallas,

in the name of Sweet Baby Jesus I implore you at this most blessed time of year to pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease stop the insanity and send up some units for evaluation!

As a pro audio forum lurker I beg of you.  I have a project to finish before Christmas and just spent way too much time going through that old evaluation thread.

A friend of mine (tonight) sent me that old thread about trying to set up an evalution for Fletcher.  I got sucked in like I sometimes get sucked in to watching a horrible Steven Segal movie.  I read all 6 pages in one sitting (what is wrong with me?)!

At the end of the 6 pages the only thing I could think of was "holy shit, Mother of God just friggin send up some units to end the craziness".  What have you got to lose?

Fletcher I apologize if this thread is not supposed to go in this direction.  I realize you don't want Dallas to respond I just coudn't help myself in throwing another opinion out.  

Like I said I just read the old thread and popped on the site just afterwards to see what was new and lo and behold everything old is new again.

By the way I have done a pretty decent amount of tracks with Vintech pre's.  No doubt very good stuff, although I still don't feel it brings that voodoo mojo undescribable gobs of goodness fatter than Satan's sister's ass shit like a Neve does.  But what does anyway?  Maybe old Telefunken stuff?  Just my opinion.

Happy Holidays
Ps. Dallas, I hope this doesn't come off as too harsh.  I'm just being goofy, but really I think it would be great to just end it all and send the stuff up.

[Kev]

This gear vs gear and supplier vs manufacturer stuff only confuses the people reading this and other forums.

Yes there are vested interests here.

I believe the only way you guys can learn about these units is to audition them in context within your work flow.

I also believe that some investigation is warranted and feel that there is nothing wrong with flipping the lid to see what is inside.
Please do not use the technical info you glean to influence your decision outright and without the above audition as many of you will not understand the technical info when it is obtained in these very small quantities.
The Neve1073 gain section with the transformers and attenuation tricks is actually more subtle and complicated than the sum of it's parts.
(some of the other mic-pre favourites can be a little easier to understand and separate)

Read as much as you can, look , listen and learn ... then make your choice.

[Kubi]

Okay, all ye holier-than-thou "  you-got-to-listen-to-it-for-yourself-so-don't-you-ever-start  -or-reply-to-comparative-threads-cuz-they-offend-our-Golden- Ear-sensibilities "-elitists,

FUCKIN-DUH!!!!!!!!!!

Of course ultimately you got to listen to it for yourself, in your workflow   blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah  blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblah-dee-fuckin-blah

I *still* find it very useful to hear from people who OWN (not who heard of) some of these pres how they compare to each other, what their very subjective experiences with the different pieces are, which ones they like for which reasons, etc.  It helps narrow down which ones we should try and/or buy (and possibly avoid a few returns.)  

If you don't find it useful to read other people's "testimonies", stay the fuck out of comparative threads, but leave the rest of us alone... I don't need politicians OR clerics OR audio geeks telling me what is or isn't good for me...  

Plus, I'm pretty sure neither Fletcher nor anyone else with a high-end audio retail business would like to see a 90% return ration cuz everyone starts following the advice from saintly audio-zealots that they absolutely must listen to every single fuckin' pre ever made in their own environment before they can make a decision.

So lay off, will ya!

Phew.

[Kev]

Kubi wrote on Thu, 23 December 2004 11:56

....  stay the fuck out of comparative threads, but leave the rest of us alone... I don't need politicians OR clerics OR audio geeks telling me what is or isn't good for me...   So lay off, will ya!

 
no

Group DIY was born from a Neve 1073 comparison thread just like this one.
I started Group DIY to help spread some knowledge to do just that ...
to help people understand things and make an informed choice
I think Fletcher may have said a few times
" It's not rocket science " ... or was it surgery ??
BUT likewise as Dan Kennedy has said
" the magic is in the detail "

take a long look at some of CJ's dissection threads


seeya,

Kev

[J.J. Blair]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Shep SN6 modules.  I own a pair and am very happy with them.  These are made by the old Neve employees who built the original 1073s and are based on their design.  I find the mic pre of these units to be exceptionally similar to my 1073s, however the EQ is a little cleaner, which may of may not be preferable to you.  I personally like the distortion of the 1073's EQ.  However, the SN6 gives you much greater fexibility than the 1073 and slightly better headroom.  While maybe not quite as 'magical' as the 1073 IMO, it absolutely has that Neve sound.

And, as Fletcher said, you can always just buy the new Neve modules.  I haven't heard them personally though, so if you check them out, let us know what you think.

[decibel]

Can someone exlain the connection between Aurora Audio and Phoenix Audio.  On the Aurora website, it also says Phoenix audio, but they seem to be two different companies.  The products look similar and even the logos look similar....what's the deal?

thanks,

Andy Dodd

[lucey]

decibel wrote on Thu, 23 December 2004 17:17

Can someone exlain the connection between Aurora Audio and Phoenix Audio.  On the Aurora website, it also says Phoenix audio, but they seem to be two different companies.  The products look similar and even the logos look similar....what's the deal? thanks, Andy Dodd

the companies were once in league and split up ...

Aurora is Geoff Tanner, former Neve designer and engineer. His pre is '1073-ish with more top' plus a nice little eq he made for two EMI desks once upon a time.

Phoenix has roots as a Neve repairs company among other things and their product is a transformerless unit, not a Neve or a Neve clone, it's totally new.  As totally new as the GR 2 NV yet more like the Flamingo.



As far as Vintech, they should take stuff up to M-A and take their chances.  

The Vintech 1272 is dark, their 473 is punchy and bright - great for drums.  Haven't heard the rest of the line, but I sense that they have the wrong transformer to be a 1073 clone in any official world - yet none exists!

All anyone can say for sure is that Chandler, Vintech, Wunder, Aurora etc. all sound different.

Neve reissues anyone?