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[JGreenslade]

Quote:

So what are you guys using the cans for? I have a DAC-1 and HD600's. My experience with using these is, they lie like a son of a bitch if they are used for anything other than identifying problems or anomolies. They will pull sublte detail out and anything that is out of place will show up. Forget about any usable translation between these and speakers. They are way to sweet on music, great on high end detail, rich on bass and very enjoyable to listne on, but I tried to mix on them a few times for kicks and the mixes were so screwed up! I don't use them for anything other than composition and arranging, and to look for anomolies in a mix.

Jokes about able seaman aside... I have 565 "Ovation" and 600s. The above description of the 600 mirrors my own experience exactly. Some have told me they reckon that the lower down the Senn range you go, the less flattering they are, although I guess you compromise on detail.

The 600s have a kind of "moving coil cartridge" quality IMHO, in that they are detailed but flattering and definitely not neutral. The tension in the band is fairly tight IMHO, so they can get uncomfortable over long periods; having said that I guess the bass response will change as the band gets older. I use them for highlighting specific issues as the quoted post states.

Justin

[bobkatz]

[quote title=thermionic wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 14:08]

Quote:

So what are you guys using the cans for?

For checking edits (always check edits both in speakers and in headphones because weirdly, there are anomalies that show up in one but not in the other, and vice versa, too!), for listening pleasure, for a secondary thing as just for fun I'll put them on a client's head just so they can "dig another experience". That's about it---Never for any absolute tonal balance or mixing or mastering judgments. You can't mix on phones...

[Kalle Ricken]

This is my first post here, so I´d like to thank the experienced ears around here for sharing this experience so generously.

To get rid of some more doubts about my sound I bought a pair of STAX 4070 with the SRM-006t box.  That ends all discussion between me and myself, which of the 2 or 300 Dollar class phones to take. They are all gathering dust now.  Still the 4070 are headphones with all the differences to speakers, which leads to my question: Does this "no sound evaluation decisions on headphones" extend to this system?

Greetings from Berlin
Kalle

[bobkatz]

Kalle Ricken wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 13:28

This is my first post here, so I?d like to thank the experienced ears around here for sharing this experience so generously. To get rid of some more doubts about my sound I bought a pair of STAX 4070 with the SRM-006t box.  That ends all discussion between me and myself, which of the 2 or 300 Dollar class phones to take. They are all gathering dust now.  Still the 4070 are headphones with all the differences to speakers, which leads to my question: Does this "no sound evaluation decisions on headphones" extend to this system? Greetings from Berlin Kalle

Are the 4070's the large ungainly rectangular monsters that purport to sound like speakers?  As you can see, there's my prejudice. I always found too much comb filtering within that box. That particular model of Stax I think is designed for "pleasure listening" rather than accuracy--that's my opinion. The best Stax, bar none, are the Omegas, a candidate for the best headphones ever made, and the Omegas were the very first phones that I felt had some of the impact and feel of the best speakers, but I still wouldn't mix on them. I've never found a headphone that can substitute for speakers, personally. At the least you'd have to try a cross-coupling circuit.

[Kalle Ricken]

bobkatz wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 20:19

Kalle Ricken wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 13:28 This is my first post here, so I?d like to thank the experienced ears around here for sharing this experience so generously. To get rid of some more doubts about my sound I bought a pair of STAX 4070 with the SRM-006t box.  That ends all discussion between me and myself, which of the 2 or 300 Dollar class phones to take. They are all gathering dust now.  Still the 4070 are headphones with all the differences to speakers, which leads to my question: Does this "no sound evaluation decisions on headphones" extend to this system? Greetings from Berlin Kalle Are the 4070's the large ungainly rectangular monsters that purport to sound like speakers?  As you can see, there's my prejudice. I always found too much comb filtering within that box. That particular model of Stax I think is designed for "pleasure listening" rather than accuracy--that's my opinion. The best Stax, bar none, are the Omegas, a candidate for the best headphones ever made, and the Omegas were the very first phones that I felt had some of the impact and feel of the best speakers, but I still wouldn't mix on them. I've never found a headphone that can substitute for speakers, personally. At the least you'd have to try a cross-coupling circuit.

Thank you BK, your prejudices are welcome. Yes, they look like monsters, but I luckily have a headshape that enables me to wear  them all night(the metal clamp is not adjustable!!).Just got your book, I´ll read comb filtering issues first...

I´d like to extend the question, though it is off topic then.
Is it consensus here "no sonic decisions on anything else than  dynamic speakers"? All the other construction principles that live in the hi end hifi scene like horns, DDD speakers by GermanPhysiks or electrostatic speakers or whatever are not helpful or useful in mixing/mastering?

Greetings from Berlin
Kalle

[bobkatz]

Kalle Ricken wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 12:33

I?d like to extend the question, though it is off topic then. Is it consensus here "no sonic decisions on anything else than  dynamic speakers"? All the other construction principles that live in the hi end hifi scene like horns, DDD speakers by GermanPhysiks or electrostatic speakers or whatever are not helpful or useful in mixing/mastering? Greetings from Berlin Kalle

Kalle, that's an excellent question! I have no prejudices regarding electrostatic loudspeakers versus dynamics, as long as the electrostats can handle the power and the dynamic range. That's the challenge, and while in the home living room I encountered some hybrid electrostatics (and ribbons) that sounded great, I never yet encountered one that worked well in the mastering room. But the HQD (Hartley/Quad/Decca) system did very well and I think BL flirted with it for a while, though no one I know uses it now in mastering.

My only prejudice about loudspeakers is that a sealed box produces more authentic bass than ported. Though I lived with ported speakers for 8 years here and produced some very good results!