R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Where should i start?  (Read 3611 times)

SeanDon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Where should i start?
« on: December 11, 2004, 04:28:07 am »

Hey all,

I wasn't sure which forum to post this in so i figured i would put it here....I've just recently started Recording Engineering school, and i'm really interested in learning more outside of the classroom as well (we dont really learn THAT much, plus most of the time its all theory and less practical)...

Anyways a lot of the stuff on this site and in recording magazines goes way over my head.....Is there anywhere that anyone can suggest that i start? to learn the core basics and then move up? I just mean things like understanding terms, or what pieces of equipment do what.....I mean yes i'm in school, but the process is slow and rather tedious, so i'd like to do some extra curricular stuff....

thx all that can help.
Logged

lucey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2004, 12:14:15 am »

Sorry to go off on you ... yet if you dont have your own experiences, school or not, you're wasting time in this field. It's just too hard to succeed.

Why do you want to be in the recording/engineering business in the first place?   And where do you see yourself going with it?


Most people are in music and/or audio because the have an aptitude, a passion or got a lucky break.  You dont have A or C.
Logged
Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

"the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

bblackwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7036
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2004, 10:50:35 am »

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark, Lucey...

Anyway, SeanDon, here's what I ask - what have you tried to do to expose yourself to more experience/knowledge? Have you tried getting on as a toilet scrubber in a local studio? Volunteer your services somewhere sweeping floors, making coffe in exchange for the chance to soak up some info from the engineer(s) there.

We all were exactly where you are at some point - wanting to work in music for a living but being rather clueless about the nuts and bolts. There are many paths to get there, you have to find your own way, but gaining some experience/extracurricular learning in a local studio is the most common way of getting a foot in the door...
Logged
Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Gideon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
Re: Where should I start?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2004, 09:59:31 pm »

Well, we all have to start somewhere. Personally, I think that a desire to learn outside of your classroom is a healthy impulse.

If you are looking for specific books to read, there are a few that I can recommend. Some of them may be a bit difficult, depending on your level of  background in math, physics and EE, but go ahead and challenge yourself--There's no better way to learn.

First, I would start with this:

Handbook for Sound Engineers: The New Audio Cyclopedia
by Glen M. Ballou

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0672219832/qid =1103523885/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

Not a great read but an essential reference. Then I would try to tackle this:

On the Sensations of Tone
by Hermann Helmholtz

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486607534/ref =pd_sim_b_3/002-2705562-1947214?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glanc e

Still, perhaps the best book ever written on the science of music. Then try this:

Science and Music
by Sir James H. Jeans

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486217698/qid =1103523953/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

Then one of my personal favorites:

Music, Physics and Engineering
by Harry F. Olson

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486217698/qid =1103523953/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

These are the classics, and if you can get through them you will have a good foundation in the basics. Then I would read:

Master Handbook of Acoustics
by F. Alton Everest

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071360972/qid =1103526134/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

Then:

Music Engineering
by Richard Brice

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0750650400/qid =1103525890/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

Then finally, you will be ready for this:

Principles of Digital Audio
by Ken C. Pohlmann


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071348190/qid =1103526043/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2705562-1947214?v=glance&a mp;s=books

This last one may be a bit more difficult, but it will bring you up to date. Good luck and good reading.
Logged
Gideon Egger
May Ying Music, Inc.
Hell's Kitchen NYC

I put 4 compressors in series and i got more Milk and Cream and Thick sound out of the audio but why?

-Walters

lucey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2004, 02:50:06 am »

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 10:50

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark, Lucey...


well i mean no harm, tough love is in his best interest.  i've watched too many musicians come and go who are not really cut out for it, and they just get in the way while theyre visiting a world which is not their home.

the audio engineering business is like mountain climbing, and if i ask a mountain cllimber "i really want the view from the summit, how do you climb a mountain?"

and he says" what little hills or in-store climbing walls have you climbed on your own?"   and i say ... nothing.  

then it's best to not risk injury or death and go elsewhere for thrills.






bottom line, no matter what anyone says if the kid needs to do it not just wants to do it ... he'll do it anyway.  he'll find the initiative and the direction through reflection and creative effort.  

so i'm being helpful, and help was asked.







you gotta have a real need (roger waters)
Logged
Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

"the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

Invisible Member

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 276
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2004, 11:55:20 am »

I think what Brian said in the last line sums it all up.

The industry is ruled by obessive passion and desire. You must have talent as well and not aptitude only. IF you have the desire, passion, obsession and humility to do whatever it takes to get into the big chair then keep moving. It's not just a job.

An analogy would be something like a kid wanting to play footballl walks onto the field during the playoffs and comments to the runningback. Hi, I just signed up for football at my Jr high, is there anyone here who can send me to the best place to skip all the training camp stuff. Thanks Smile

Whatever... you do... do early as possible and never quit no matter how harsh it looks ar scary it might seem.

Repeat after me!

I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!
I am a cockroach in the audio world!

And I will survive any nuclear holocaust, musician, mook and moron that come my way!

Peace,
Dennis
Logged

Tim Halligan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1302
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2005, 08:43:39 am »

All good advice.

However, the Recording 101 forum over at the MARSH is a useful, non-threatening place to ask for clarification on any of the stuff that flies over your head at school.

Best of luck kid. You've chosen a difficult journey.

Cheers,
Tim
Logged
"Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity." - J. Whynot

"You can tune a room only with a bulldozer." - Andy Peters

David Schober

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2005, 06:01:46 pm »

Brian, Dennis,

I don't know where you got the idea he was looking for a shortcut.  He's enrolled in a school and independent of that he came here looking for help....outside extra work.  That's you're response???

I just don't see it that way.  All of us started somewhere.  I remember the days wondering what the difference between a limiter and a compressor was...or why I needed to use one.  This stuff ain't intuitive.  You have to learn it.  And he's asking.

SeanDon, the recommendations Gideon gave are good.  Start there....read all you can here online in the various forums of PSWeb.  It wil take time and a lot of effort.

Where are you?  You must find a talented engineer and become his best friend.  Hnag with him/her and soak up all you can.

Where are you in school?  That will shed light also.
Logged
David Schober

twigg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2005, 04:37:45 pm »

SeanDon wrote on Sat, 11 December 2004 04:28

I've just recently started Recording Engineering school, and i'm really interested in learning more outside of the classroom as well (we dont really learn THAT much, plus most of the time its all theory and less practical)...


Why are you still going? If you're not learning anything stop giving them your money!

Get your resume together and send it to all the local studios you can find (start with the big ones). Follow up on those a few days later. Studios don't generally expect interns to be experienced in the field. You'll be making coffee and getting food for people. In return you get to sometimes sit in on sessions. That's the way it works at the studio I'm at anyway. That's what you need to do.

I'm not sure how you simply find a local engineer and become his best friend. That's sort of a silly suggestion. You meet these people at studios. Eventually they begin to rely on you (provided you do a good job) and THEN you can latch on to somebody.

The Industry Forum over in MARSH may have been a better place to post this. Good Luck.
Logged

rvdsm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 84
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 07:26:59 pm »

My recommendation to SeanDon:

If you haven't already, pick up a copy of Mixerman's book (don't flame me for plugging MM's book in the REP either, I know where I'm at! lol).

That is a good starting point for anyone who is seriously considering entering this profession - a real no-bullshit approach.


Logged
We walked along and talked along till we came to the levelest ground....then I picked up a stick of wood and I knocked that Boston bitch down!

George_

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1234
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2005, 03:08:09 am »

I want buy a book...

Go to your local concerthall, concertbunker, bar.. something with livemusic..

and begin to mix live-music!!! you will learn a lot, from the roadies comming with the band, the bandmixers wich you have to babysit and you will maybe learn to know, what's the diffrence between an audio-engeneer and a audio-hobbyproducer..

you can get a very good recording with a creative audigy and 300$ monitor speakers and a very bad one with lynx and 5000$ monitoring.. I heard both..

and like AC/DCs bon scott sung:
It's a long way to the top IF YOU WANNA ROCK 'N'ROLL..
Logged
"BORN A ROCKER, DIE A ROCKER"

George Necola

12345

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2005, 10:01:59 pm »

Hi SeanDon,

I simply want to pass on some advice that was given to me...on a different topic.  But it applies.  

The advice was from Jeff Beck (guitar player).  His advice was simply, "Do your own thing."  

So I think that sums it up (pun intended).  

Do your own thing, in the wise words of Jeff Beck.  

You must pave your own path.  

But remember those words.  

Sincerely,
MW
Logged

malice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 799
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2005, 10:37:08 pm »

lucey wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 06:14

Sorry to go off on you ... yet if you dont have your own experiences, school or not, you're wasting time in this field. It's just too hard to succeed.

Why do you want to be in the recording/engineering business in the first place?   And where do you see yourself going with it?


Most people are in music and/or audio because the have an aptitude, a passion or got a lucky break.  You dont have A or C.


Huuu, and I thought the tough neighborhood where newbies get toasted was at the MARSH ?????    Very Happy

malice

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2005, 11:22:32 am »

I consider the various Focal Press books to be the gold standard.

The Audio Cyclopedia was our bible in the '60s and '70s but I was very disappointed in the post- Howard Tremaine editions.

Invisible Member

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 276
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2005, 12:37:35 pm »

David Schober wrote on Sun, 30 January 2005 15:01

Brian, Dennis,

I don't know where you got the idea he was looking for a shortcut.


It could have been this maybe?

Quote:

"I mean yes i'm in school, but the process is slow and rather tedious".


Maybe it's me....but my "harshness" was supposed to sarcasm..

DOH!

Im not bad Im just typed that way...


Peace,
Dennis
Logged

John Ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3028
Re: Where should i start?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2005, 07:14:10 pm »

My dear young friend,, RUN RUN LIKE HELLLLLLLL>>>>

OK, so you wont run, that's a good start. The first thing I would do is go out and find a 1/2" 8 track analog machine and a small console. You will need some monitors and some SM 57's. Do what ever it takes to get this stuff Even if you have a computer and software,recording to this tape machine will teach you stuff about tracking in a way that sinks in better.

Getting on a live sound crew pulling wire and lifting boxes can teach you a lot also. PROTECT YOUR EARS!! you will be glad you did..

Find every young start up guitar player and drummer/bass player and all those bands that that are just getting going and start recording them. Do as much of this as you can.You will learn more doing this than anything else you do. {of course}

Stay in school while you do this. If it's boring you, you need to take more classes. ;-} { sorry }

You can do cool stuff having both the tape machine and a DAW.  For instance ,,You can teach yourself the basics of synchronization using your tape machine as the master.

Do you play an instrument? If not,pick one to tinker on. You don't have to be great but, mess around with it a lot so you can play some stuff.


If you really want to do this, you need to live it. Eat sleep and drink it. The job's seem to be shrinking more and more all the time so, only the hardest workers with talent and knowledge will be able to make a living it seems.  I don't make my whole living from engineering, only half. The last two years were less than that ... You really have to want this BAD!!!

Good luck young brother.......
Logged
"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up