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Author Topic: Native Instruments Hitler Humor  (Read 9356 times)

Piyono

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Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« on: December 10, 2004, 02:30:34 pm »

I was using Native Instruments' Guitar Rig at a local studio today when I came across a preset in the compressor module named "Mein Comp". I don't know if this is supposed to be a play on Hitler's "Mein Kampf", but if it is, it sure as hell isn't funny.

I emailed my concerns to NI on Tuesday night, asking for an explanation, further stating that I would post my findings with the pro audio community at large if they didn't get back to me by Friday at 2:00 pm. It's now past 2:00 pm and I've heard nothing from them, so I'm fulfilling my end of the ultimatum.

As you may have guessed Third-Reich-Revisionist humour does not amuse me, unless the Third Reich is at the butt of the jokes.

While I Native Instruments arguably cannot help that one of their programmers has neo-Nazi proclivities, they had damned well make sure that potentially offensive shit like that gets squelched during alpha testing. The fact that "Mein Comp" made it into the release is a bit shocking, I mean, how many people read those preset names during the development phase? During Alpha testing? Beta Testing? Release Candidates?

Anyway, all I want is for NI to acknowledge the error and correct it in the next release.

I'm usually pretty quiet on these forums but this sorta irked me. Sorry if it starts a flame war.

This message will be cross-posted to the following forums:
Gearslutz
EQ
Pro Sound Web
rec.audio.pro
3D Audio

Time to get ready for Shabbat.


Piyono
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 06:32:09 pm »

I think it's sick, you have my respect.
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Min Dara

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2004, 07:53:27 pm »

I think you're just being a touchy dumbass.  

It's very mild humor, and it's not praising or acclaiming Hitler's accomplishments.

Before you label me a Nazi, know that my relatives were gassed by his government because they were jews.

This is just a preset.  Hitler's dead, and his empire is history.  
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Lee Tyler

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2004, 09:45:57 am »

Quote:

I think you're just being a touchy dumbass.


Faeflora, we could do without that name-throwing, eh? Very easy to make your point without that shite. "It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it."  ---Leeflora
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Jonas as

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 11:04:53 am »

My Comp / Mein Comp

Theres no law against the widely used german language, is it, mein herr?

BTW, relatives of mine spent time/died in his camps too.....
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 11:58:05 am »

bora wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 16:04

My Comp / Mein Comp

Theres no law against the widely used german language, is it, mein herr?

BTW, relatives of mine spent time/died in his camps too.....


You just don't get it do you? Mein Kampf was written by an asshole called Adolf Hitler who happens to be responsible for the murder of how million people, 26 million?

He and his friends were about to exterminate an entire race.

People were transported by caddle trains to 'holyday camps' and when arrived they were asked to put off their shoes and tie them together and leave their things just  were they stood, in order to enjoy a 'shower' first.

But there was no water coming out of the shower.

After an hour and a half all had died except a kid of three or four years old, who was crying over the dead body of mom or dad.
Then came some 'holydaycamp guard' who shot the sweet little kid through the head.

There are stories about a toddler, asking: where is my mommie? to the guard, who answered: she's just leaving the chimney.

So, when one names a preset or plug 'Mein comp' which without any doubt refers to 'Mein Kampf', that's utterly sick, period.
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Jonas as

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2004, 12:17:41 pm »

Han S. wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 17:58

 'Mein comp' which without any doubt refers to 'Mein Kampf'



Han,
Thats the only thing we disagree on. I do not think mein  comp refers to mein kampf, if it did, it would have been sick.
(I have visited both Auschwitz-Birkenau and Sachsenhausen, which is the places where people of my family was kept/killed)

You might not know that Native Instruments is an German company, wich often use German-spellings and patch names in their products. Mein Comp is simply My Comp, with their USUAL(in some plugs) German spelling. (as you should understand yourself with a language closer to the german than mine...)  
Hope it's clearer now.  
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2004, 02:41:49 pm »

Well, it could be and I hope you're right, in that case I apologise.

But OTOH, hve you read the first post? The guy emailed NI this:
"I emailed my concerns to NI on Tuesday night, asking for an explanation, further stating that I would post my findings with the pro audio community at large if they didn't get back to me by Friday at 2:00 pm. It's now past 2:00 pm and I've heard nothing from them, so I'm fulfilling my end of the ultimatum".

Why didn't they bother to give him a decent answer?

Peace, Han
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Brendo

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2004, 02:43:14 am »

Did you consider that maybe they get far more email than you realise, and it may take weeks or months until this one pops up at the top of the list?

Secondly, the point about NI being a German company is very valid.

Thirdly - how do you know NI supplied that particular preset?
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Ralf Kleemann

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2004, 06:16:09 am »

Being a German native speaker, I feel that "Mein Comp" does call for the analogy that you mentioned. So if it is a pun, it's a bad one, and it's certainly inappropriate to build such a reference into a publicly available product. Sue them for what my dictionary calls "injunctive relief" if that helps your cause. The accused may argue, however, that having an unsubtle moment does not automatically make them neo-nazis.

Best regards,
Ralf

Fletcher

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2004, 10:39:56 am »

Interestingly, it was companies like Neumann and Studer that led to the rise of the Nazi's... in fact the Reich overlooked the minor inconvenience that Georg Neumann's wife [which according to our law means that also his children] was Jewish.  

The Reich also mandated that every home have a radio, the advent of the tape recorder was during this time and the allied forces were amazed that the speeches were presented as perfectly as they were [not having tape and razor blades at their disposal all they understood was direct to disk... they didn't have a Pro-Tools rig yet so they didn't understand editing]... the authority with which these inflamatory speeches were delivered motivated a country to action!!  The Neumann CMV-3 microphones also lent themselves to the authority and clarity of this vocal communication... and we all saw where this kind of motivation led.  Granted there was an air of frustration left over from the first world war... but the exploitation of this frustration was pretty much the media invention of some sick motherfuckers.

Mass communication and propaganda is still a problem... access to public airwaves without varying views is still a huge problem.  The constriction of ownership of media outlets is one of the most frightening things to me in recent times!!  I have a fucking moron for a President to proove it.

There are basicly half a dozen media concerns in the US... we have a very well regulated set of messages that are disseminated to the general public, the opposing viewpoints few and far between and you actually have to actively search for them.  Not that these opposing viewpoints are necessarily correct, but they do force you to think and draw your own conclusions.

My point being that when M-A pointed out the Neumann/Nazi lineage I was seen as an insensitive asshole.  My point was to embarass a company whose history I abhor, who turned to what I felt were similar practices taken by their original backers though obviously to a far lesser extreme.

Knowing history will help us prevent repeating history... understanding how the history of the tools and product we create can indeed influence real/actual world events is of paramount importance... getting your panties in a bunch over the possible misinterpretation of the name of a product... well this served two purposes... the first, never forget [an important one in my book]; the second, to promote a product I for one had never heard of...

Whether the name of this patch was intentional or not seems somewhat irrelevant after all the ruckus these posts have managed to stir up... making people think is always a good thing.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


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If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Piyono

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2004, 11:58:27 am »

Forgive me good readers, for not following up on any of these forums until now. I didn't consider, when cross-posting that I may actually have to defend myself in the ensuing discussions. This is my blanket reply to everyone. It will be my final cross-post. If anyone would like to rebuke me further I'll be at Gearslutz, 'cos that's where the bulk of the replies have originated. Thank you. Now for my reply...

I occasionally wonder about the individuals responsible for inflamatory posts and the threads spawned thereof. The eggers-on. That somebody would invest so much time and energy into rousing rabble astounds me. I mean, how petty and unproductive an occupation can there *be*?
Then again, I don't really give the matter *too* much though because, frankly, I'm not a heavy usenet/forum poster. Besides, long debates make my head spin. Couple that with the fact that I'm a slower writer than I am a reader and it becomes most impractical for me to pound away at the nets all day. I don't get involved in OTDs. It's just never been my thang. I'm going somewhere with this, really.

Getting back to the trolls, just What makes them tick? Well, through my recent posting experience I have gained valuable insight to the psyche of the troll and I feel that I'm now in the position to comment. Broken down into his most basic elements (I use the masculine only as a linguistic convenience) the troll is thoroughly bored, possibly lonely, somewhat pathetic, and looking for attention. I say this with absolute certainty because those were four accurate descriptors of my state when I posted my own inflammatory remarks on Friday afternoon. Of course the key element at play here is attention, and I can now tell you first hand that getting a rise out of dozens upon dozens of people, for whatever reason, brings with it a *huge* rush which feels *incredibly* gratifying. I speculate that if three of the conditions (boredom, loneliness, pathos) do not change, the troll will feed off any attention directed his way and continue trolling indefinitely.

If you've ever suggested to a troll that he has too much time on his hands or commented on his pitiful state of existence you would have been correct. However, If you have ever wanted to *know* the troll, to *understand* him... then know me, for I have joined their ranks. (Some of you might rephrase that to "sunk to their depths". Hey, It's all good).

It just so happens that last week all the conditions were right for me to engage in this decidedly trollish behavior:
I practically hadn't left the house in over a week and a half due to an injury I sustained last Monday (Front wheel popped off my bicycle and the resulting wipe-out saw me tear some ligaments in my right shoulder [I'm a righty], bruise a few ribs, pinch a nerve in my back and accrue a general assortment of scrapes and bruises. No, I didn't hit my head. Yes, I'm a lot better now, thank you very much) and I was arguably the most bored, lonely and pathetic that I've ever been. Add to this the fact that I *do* rather get a kick out of crafting diatribes (they're a real treat, y'know, because how often do I get worked up enough about something to muster up the gumption to trash it in writing? Not too often) and I was powerless to resist. I *really* needed something to do. And I found it.

As most of us well know, there can be drawn a clear distinction between an idea and its presentation. Sitting here now I can think of ten ways that I could have approached the issue. At the time, however, I was fueled by some understandably negative energy which lent a decidedly, over-the-top, mean-spirited tone to my letter. This is not to say that the matter doesn't concern me - because it does - only that the manner in which I handled it was grossly overblown. I mean, *boy* did I pick a roundabout way of saying "hey, guys, does this seem as tasteless to you as it does to me? In short I recant the delivery but my initial concern stands.

Unfortunately for me, even though *I* know that my personality type is polar opposite of an antagonist, the burden of redeeming my name is now on my shoulders, alone, because I post on these boards so infrequently that I've got nobody to back me up.

Live and learn.

Piyono
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Peter Weihe

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2004, 09:01:54 pm »

Dear Piyono, dear Han,

I have met the guys of Native Instruments some week s ago.
They came to my studio and we compared their Vox AC 30 modeling to the real thing and worked on some of their pre sets.
My impression was that they were freaks with long hair, probably with some pot in their pockets, their look being pretty grungy just the opposite of Neo Nazis.
On the other side I don't think that they could ever have that strange kind of black humor.
I even wouldn't call it humor anymore to call a preset " Mein comp".
I noticed that they were constantly using very personal names for settings that we had found and whenever one of them liked a sound they stored it with a name they could remember later . That particular preset probably was just a setting that one of  them favored and he used the German word for "my" and the English short form of compressor for it.
We are using  Amercian words for audio equipment , controls and settings over here and we simply can't remember the German words for it for anymore.
I follow Ralf Kleemann because with a typical  German pronunciation "comp" simply doesn't sound like " Kampf". But I can perfectly  understand why you had that association.
My girlfriend is Irish. She grew up in London and she is studying Amercian, English and German literature and culture. She wrote a work in linguistics about English singers that have a American pronunciation whenever they sing and a have posh British pronunciation  when they speak.
Elton John is a brilliant excample for that. BTW Even The Beatles did it in their Rockn'n Roll Days and as they were getting more and more self confident over the years they had more of a British accent .From this I learned that the American pronunciation of "comp" is pretty different from the English . The American "o" in "comp" actually is similar to the German "a" in "Kampf". The pronunciation that we learn in school over here is supposed to be British English but what comes out is English with a funny strong German accent.
So believe me, as Ralf said, nobody over here would think of
"Kampf" when  using the word "comp". unless he had spent a year in the States.
What makes it even harder for us to learn the proper pronunciation than for citizens of other European countries is, that we never have the chance to watch American or English movies in the original English version on German TV. All movies are synchronized.   Due to that Scandinavian or Dutch singers sound much more like native speakers when singing English lyrics because they grew up with the original movies.
German singers for example tend to constantly changing the dialect they are singing in varying from British Cockney to Texan or BBC English with that typical German accent.
That is giving us a hard time whenever we produce an American song with a German singer.

I am convinced that the guys from Native Instruments haven't even noticed how their " Mein Comp" can be understood in the USA and  they will probably be shocked when they will get my call tomorrow.
I will ask them to change that name.
My generation hates the Nazis so much that we don't want to be associated with them.
That's one of the many reasons why I don't like "Ramstein".
They are consciously playing  with elements of that time, taking the risk that young people are fascinated by these symbols,  just for their personal profit.
Fletcher is right, we must try to learn from history, never forget the Nazis and their terror and their system of manipulation and promotion.
That was one of the main questions my generation was constantly asking the the previous generation. " How was that possible?????????"
" How could that happen"?????????????????????????

We better keep our eyes open and and I hope that whenever another lunatic will try to promote his sick ideology of being superior to any other human being somebody will notice it and post it.
The INTERNET is a real chance for us today.

Thanks for keeping your eyes open.
Sorry for that Naive (Instruments) usage of your language.

By the way , Fletcher, I think that not only the clarity of the Neumann mics helped the Nazis with their promotion but also valve distortion.
Whenever that idiot was getting angry during his speeches,
(as Charly Chaplin perfectly imitated ) that distortion and compression of the following stages helped him to sound present and powerful.

Best regards,
Peter
























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Peter Weihe

joanna ardalan

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2004, 06:04:26 pm »

Native Instruments would like to clear up a misunderstanding that has arisen with regard to GUITAR RIG. A user has pointed out that there is a preset in GUITAR RIG's compressor entitled "Mein Comp". The user then made the suggestion that this was a deliberate play on the book entitled "Mein Kampf".

This is not the case at all. The preset name is merely an abbreviation, albeit a German one. The German word "Mein" means "my" and "Comp" is short for "compressor". In view of the fact that Native Instruments is in fact a German company and the sound designer is also German, the origins and intentions of this preset name are understandable and have nothing whatsoever to do with "Mein Kampf", the Third Reich, NAZIs or indeed any other unsavoury connotations.

However, in order to ensure that any further misinterpretations do not occur in the future, this preset will be substituted for one entitled "My Compressor". Native Instruments would like to apologize for any misunderstandings and any offence this might have caused.
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Fibes

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2004, 09:49:13 am »

Now that we have that cleared up can we get rid of the Vlad the Impaler preset on the UAD Precision limiter? uh...
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2004, 07:53:41 am »

Very interesting post Peter.  Thanx for taking so much time....

TIK
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judah

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2004, 06:38:40 am »

joanna ardalan wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 00:04

Native Instruments would like to clear up a misunderstanding that has arisen with regard to GUITAR RIG. A user has pointed out that there is a preset in GUITAR RIG's compressor entitled "Mein Comp". The user then made the suggestion that this was a deliberate play on the book entitled "Mein Kampf".

This is not the case at all. The preset name is merely an abbreviation, albeit a German one. The German word "Mein" means "my" and "Comp" is short for "compressor". In view of the fact that Native Instruments is in fact a German company and the sound designer is also German, the origins and intentions of this preset name are understandable and have nothing whatsoever to do with "Mein Kampf", the Third Reich, NAZIs or indeed any other unsavoury connotations.

However, in order to ensure that any further misinterpretations do not occur in the future, this preset will be substituted for one entitled "My Compressor". Native Instruments would like to apologize for any misunderstandings and any offence this might have caused.



Sorry to jump in but this is the most crazy and ridiculous stuff I've heard lately. A company forced to change one preset's name because someone doesn't have anythign better to do during his days. I want Waves to change their Delay preset named Analog Delay. It reminds me of ANAL and I'm very disturbed by homosexuality and anal sex. This is the sad world we are living in 2004.

R.
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Ralf Kleemann

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2004, 09:20:05 am »

judah wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 11:38

This is the sad world we are living in 2004.


Sad world or not, you have to take such implications into account if you want to play in the professional league as a company. Somebody somewhere might feel like sueing you, this is not only a problem in the USA. In the same way in which your circuit design has to pass the FCC or CE certification, a "pro" company should run their software through some kind of sanity check before shipping. Doesn't hurt.
The "Mein Comp" issue might not be the best example, though, since even two unrelated German native speakers had extreme difficulties seeing a problem here, and believe me, back home we get this sort of thing quite a bit.

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Fletcher

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2004, 08:15:17 am »

joanna ardalan wrote on Tue, 14 December 2004 18:04

However, in order to ensure that any further misinterpretations do not occur in the future, this preset will be substituted for one entitled "My Compressor". Native Instruments would like to apologize for any misunderstandings and any offence this might have caused.



I for one would never buy a product that had anything labeled on it called "my compressor"... it reminds me too much of "my first SONY" or "my little pony".

You wanna call it "Mein Comp", even as someone whose circumcision was not installed for cosmetic purposes... even with the potential misunderstanding for a 'Hitler' reference... that name is FAR less offensive to me than "my compressor".

My compressor is a Drawmer 1968... any other piece of gear is someone else's compressor!!!
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Piyono

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2004, 02:39:29 am »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:15

even as someone whose circumcision was not installed for cosmetic purposes...


MOT? Wow. "Fletcher" doesn't strike me as a particularly Jewish name.
Nu, Vos Macht a Yid?
Smile


]-[
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Level

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2004, 10:22:12 am »

Neither does Roberts...but my Dad was adopted. Don't place emphesis on names is the total conclusion of all these threads..as you have no clue as to what the actual intention or origin.

I will say this, my Dad was definitly not a part of the "hitler youth"

I can't say if renaming myself Wilheim Klein would make any difference. Afterall, it is my real name..had he not been adopted.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2004, 10:00:41 am »

Dear Mr. Gusaddy!


I think your comparison regarding "My Comp" very amusing not to say ridiculous.

What is your history degree? Do you think the germans still have Nazi flags out there? This is history and about 50 years ago!

Most Germans know that subject from their history lessons and films.
I was recently in Germany and I must say they have their country much better under control than my country the US does. e.g. Social security and so on...

I'm a US citizien and I'm more concerned about our president than Hitler.
Hitler is history and dead...

I think Mr. Weihe did a great explantion.

Mr. Gusaddy it would be a good idea to think about such a thread before posting.

Sincerely,

Ed Farbstein


This here is the real subject:

Because  of the horrendous results of the recent election, I, as I'm sure many of  you , am in mourning for my country and in fact, the entire planet Earth.  What is sad is the obvious fact that so many Americans seem to have their  heads totally buried in the sand. All those that voted for the republican  creeps who won can only see what is affecting them right now, and  don't even see much of that. They obviously couldn't care less about what  kind of world  they're leaving to their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren?the  massive debt they'll be saddled with, not to mention no more clean water  to drink or air to breathe. As long as they can pay less tax, everything  will be just fine. National forests and other, formerly protected public  lands over-logged, drilled in,  polluted  ? basically  pillaged  so that  future generations will never get a chance to appreciate their beauty.


You'd  think that the 90%+ of the rest of the world (whose media isn't nearly as  filtered as ours) despising the United States only because of the Bush policies,  would have tipped the  American  voters  off  that something is horribly wrong with the disgustingly miserable creatures  passing as our "administration". I feel that Bush getting reelected  could be the worst thing to happen to our planet since Hitler. Does anyone  really  believe Bush's "war on terror" is really getting anywhere? Are  these Republican-voting fools reading different newspapers than I am? Oh,  perhaps they can't read, so I guess they just watch Fox "news", that  we all know is so "fair & balanced"?yeah right! Looks  to me like terrorism is just getting worse - at least that's  what they want us to believe. Hey, wait a minute, they're actually telling  us they're losing!


The environment  didn't seem to be much of an issue this election. Too bad?Kerry should  have jumped all over Bush & Cheney's pushing through logging, mining & drilling  permits on taxpayer-owned public lands under the media radar, not to curb  our dependence on foreign energy  (because it won't?it's literally a drop in the oil barrel) but merely  to line the pockets of owners of the big oil, gas, lumber, paper and coal  mining  companies who are the Bush administration's buddies and campaign supporters.  After all, GWB was an oil guy!



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Tom Tannenberger

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2004, 08:12:59 am »

dear Fletcher, you know that Microtech Gefell (that you distribute) is the eastern sister company of Neumann (as you were attacking them above, you attacked MG as well)?
also, making fun out of a preset name and a product (with the "I wouldn´t buy it" undertone) is really brave when owning a site that looks like "my granddad has a tattooshop".
I was always impressed by the quality kit content of the Mercenary site and loved to have a look every now and then, also ordering because of the nice Euro/Dollar relation at the moment, but dissing 2 companies (first diss without the historical facts related to the company it is today, second diss with an arrogant undertone) is really a bit heavy.
maybe I have misunderstood something, then I made an idiot of myself, but maybe not. it´s a pitty, as I liked what you´ve written and done so far...
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2005, 11:11:39 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Tue, 21 December 2004 08:15

You wanna call it "Mein Comp", even as someone whose circumcision was not installed for cosmetic purposes... even with the potential misunderstanding for a 'Hitler' reference... that name is FAR less offensive to me than "my compressor".


Getting away with that name change is so ritarded as demanding the Deutsche Gramophon company to stop selling Wilhelm Kempf playing Beethoven so great at the piano because his name sounds like some crazy stuff that happened over half a century ago.

Or asking Dodge to stop priducing the Dakota because it sounds like Tallikota.

How many people should be angry at MetricHalo for their Channel Strip plugin reminding them all the atrocities made by the 6-point-star army at the Gaza Strip...

Empirical Labs must be in deep trouble for their "nuke" setting on their racks.

I remember seeing synth presets that sounded like Nanjing or Hindu Kush, and nobody complained.


Keep the damn teutonic name. Make some music.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2005, 09:21:58 am »

I did NOT SEE that preset on my Native Instruments..
oops...

sorry

i think it's just my compressor..

No one names their kids adolph any more at least...
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2005, 08:42:20 am »

IMO the stinking fascist here is you .
Rubbing on German's faces the deeds of a minority of its citizen 60 years ago it plain sucks.
 It seems that everybody else is an innocent ,well it ain´t.
 BTW did you harassed them because of the word Native...perhaps they were mocking the entire genocide of the Indian Nation perpetrated by Europeans in AmeriKKKa.

 Never the less you granted well your place on my ignore list.
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David Schober

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2005, 09:12:47 am »

bubba wrote on Mon, 27 December 2004 09:00

I feel that Bush getting reelected  could be the worst thing to happen to our planet since Hitler.




Now there's a perspective with an understanding of history that speaks for itself.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Rwanda's murderers, Mao and Milosovich....to name a few, were choir boys until real evil arrived.  I'm not sure civilization itself will survive four more years.  Hillary my never get her chance.

oops....gotta go.  Michael Moore is calling...
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David Schober

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2005, 06:49:11 am »

Anyone care for a nice cup of tea?
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Gary Brandt
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2005, 07:59:04 am »

Quote:

Anyone care for a nice cup of tea?

Sounds great!  But a saloon implies hard liquor and sharp tongues... Razz  

And for the record I think it is very obvious to most that it was a pun on Mein Kampf, and they got busted.  But I have never met anyone who does not joke about Hitler.  There is a difference between joking about Hitler and being a fukked up kunt.

I don't think it is being overly sensitive to draw attention to "silly things" like this.  

It is easy to call someone an over sensitive asshole, but someone has to draw the line, make a stand etc...because it is obviously something that can NEVER be forgotten.  And fair enough maybe it was a language thang (I doubt it) but I salute anyone who has the balls to take the issue (and I think it's a big one) on in a public forum.  And if it's not fukken obvious why is the name gonna be changed?

Hope everyone is having a great February....


Lemme nough

TIK
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2005, 12:19:55 pm »

You're right it's easy:
the person who complained about this to the company is an over sensitive asshole.

there.

seriously though, i cannot BELIEVE this stupid thread is still alive.

shows that SOME types of 'politically correct' are acceptable while others are not.


I had one client who was REALLY concerned that we had labelled one 24 track machine with a piece of tape saying "Slave" and the other with a piece saying "Master" ... he/she thought that was highly insensitive

we relabelled the two machines Dominant and Submissive... and I've been happier ever since.


I have to go now, I'm working on the "final solution" to the downloading "problem."
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2005, 03:19:48 pm »

GW Bush's grandfather and great grandfather were the finaciers of Hitlers Nazi party and financed their rise to power, and were instrumental in the begining of world war 2. THAT I find offensive. These are the people now in control of the US and soon the rest of the world.
They were finaly shut down in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy act. These are historical facts. Look it up.
If you want make a wave, make it about something that matters.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2005, 03:26:07 pm »

HAHAHAHAHAHA

You've got to be kidding!
This shit hysterical.

Fuck you EMTEC and Studer! Damn anti-semetic assholes.

Buy MCI and Quantegy! AMERICA!!!
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2005, 03:57:22 pm »

OMG!! get a LIFE!!




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David Schober

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2005, 01:28:57 am »

Les Ismore wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 14:19

GW Bush's grandfather and great grandfather were the finaciers of Hitlers Nazi party and financed their rise to power, and were instrumental in the begining of world war 2. THAT I find offensive. These are the people now in control of the US and soon the rest of the world.
They were finaly shut down in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy act. These are historical facts. Look it up.
If you want make a wave, make it about something that matters.


How about a little link to back that accusation up?  I didn't realize the Bush family was so wealthy they could finance an entire country.  Also, please share how W will control the entire world in the next few years.  Seems to me he's got enough opposition here already.  You must believe France, Germany, Russia and China are in on this plan too.

While you're at it, care to comment on the Kennedy family's support of Hitler?  Maybe Lindburgh as well?  

I guess Deutche Grammaphon and other classical labels need to clear their catalog of Richard Strauss...who was a supporter of the Third Reich all through the war.  How about starting a movement against Volkswagon & Porsche?  The Beetle was partly designed by Hitler along with Ferri Porsche.  While you're at it, how about Mercedes Benz too?  Der Furher rode in nothing else.  If you're going to castigate...at least be consistent.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2005, 02:20:25 am »

David Schober wrote on Sun, 27 February 2005 07:28

Les Ismore wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 14:19

GW Bush's grandfather and great grandfather were the finaciers of Hitlers Nazi party and financed their rise to power, and were instrumental in the begining of world war 2. THAT I find offensive. These are the people now in control of the US and soon the rest of the world.
They were finaly shut down in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy act. These are historical facts. Look it up.
If you want make a wave, make it about something that matters.


How about a little link to back that accusation up?  I didn't realize the Bush family was so wealthy they could finance an entire country.  Also, please share how W will control the entire world in the next few years.  Seems to me he's got enough opposition here already.  You must believe France, Germany, Russia and China are in on this plan too.

While you're at it, care to comment on the Kennedy family's support of Hitler?  Maybe Lindburgh as well?  

I guess Deutche Grammaphon and other classical labels need to clear their catalog of Richard Strauss...who was a supporter of the Third Reich all through the war.  How about starting a movement against Volkswagon & Porsche?  The Beetle was partly designed by Hitler along with Ferri Porsche.  While you're at it, how about Mercedes Benz too?  Der Furher rode in nothing else.  If you're going to castigate...at least be consistent.



http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=de tail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=de tail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_Link

http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/bush_nazi.html

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/bushnz1.htm

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/bushcrimefamily.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

http://burningbush.twentythree.us/3.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1022-01.htm

http://watch.pair.com/reich.html

http://watch.pair.com/reich.html

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/bushco/bush_crime_family.h tm

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=1080& fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

http://www.freepress.org/dispatches/2004/display/135


http://www.spectrezine.org/resist/bush.htm


http://kevingossett.typepad.com/nogooddeed/2004/09/bush_fami lys_na.html




I could go on an on, but not without mentioning the only link in defense of Bush familly past:



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1051.htm





I don't know dude ...


You elected the guy...


Your pal


malice

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2005, 02:29:09 am »

My favorite so far : this come from fox newz

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html


hmmmm ?????



malice

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2005, 03:35:45 pm »

Howdy Malice,

Well I should have expected this kind of response.  Within the 17 links you gave, most of them linked to each other, and several of the rest were actually reports of the same source story, the NH Gazette story in link #1.

So while it might look like a lot of sources, you really only had about two or three.  For that matter most of the link are to far left leaning blogger-type sites.  

You doubt it?  Here's what one site, Spectazine said about itself:

"A spectre is haunting Europe...
....Welcome to Spectrezine
Spectrezine is a radical journal of the European Left, with a global perspective"


Commondreams.org describes itself in it's subtitle.  "Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community."  (for those asleep in the last year or so, the word "progressive" has been co-opted for "liberal."  A term which apparently is politcal suicide these days.  Try to find one middle of the road columnist in that site.  Much less a conservative.  That's fair and balanced huh?  Even the Drudgereport does better than that.


Now about those links of yours...

The source story in the NH Gazette was written by a man named Buchanan who is  discussed in link #7.  The Guardian described him as a "muckraking reporter" suffering from manic depression.  Continuing on the Guaridan wrote, "when he found himself rebuffed in his initial efforts to interest the media, he responded with a series of threats against the journalists and media outlets that had spurned him..... Most seriously, he faced aggravated stalking charges in Miami, in connection with a man with whom he had fallen out over the best way to publicise his findings."

From what I can tell Buchanan is the primary torch bearer of this story carried though most of these sites.  Hardly a real journalist.  


Maybe you should have read those links you provided.  Here's a few quotes I found interesting:

"While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade."


"Loftus stressed that what Prescott Bush was involved in was just what many other American and British businessmen were doing at the time.
"You can't blame Bush for what his grandfather did any more than you can blame Jack Kennedy for what his father did - bought Nazi stocks."
(By the way, I noticed you didn't comment on that)

Regarding the investigation into Bush's involvement with Thyssen:

"Prescott Bush acted quickly and openly on behalf of the firm, served well by a reputation that had never been compromised. He made available all records and all documents. Viewed six decades later in the era of serial corporate scandals and shattered careers, he received what can be viewed as the ultimate clean bill."


"The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."
This is despite the fact that the Jewish community still votes strongly Democratic.

"Fritz Thyssen was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. His position with Union Banking never was a political issue for Bush, who was elected to the Senate from Connecticut in 1952."

Suddenly your hardcore accusations don't carry as much weight.  Bear in mind, these are quotes from the very sites you listed.


While there are legitimate issues raised about these dealings, pre-war dealings with Germany and Japan got very sticky for many businesses.  Anyone who studied the 1930s knows that there was tremendous US investments in Germany after WWI.  And while hindsight is 20/20, read Manchester's book on Churchill, "The Last Lion" and you'll see how few really understood what Hitler was really about until the invasion of Poland.  Even after that many, Joe Kennedy in particular, still supported Hitler.  The fact that he was the Ambassador to Britian and held unauthorized meetings with Nazi party heads assuring them FDR would lose the 1940 election, particularly puts him in a much worse light than Bush.   (Joe's stated opinon was the Jews had "brought on themselves" whatever Hitler did to them)

Even still your original statement I'll quote:

Les Ismore wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 14:19

GW Bush's grandfather and great grandfather were the finaciers of Hitlers Nazi party and financed their rise to power, and were instrumental in the begining of world war 2. .



Taking the worst possible scenario against the reputation of Bush, all of the links you provided prove your statement to be wrong.  Thyssen was the financier of Hitler.  Bush financed nothing.  He was only one of seven directors of one of only one of Thyssens' banks.  Bush's stake, only one share, compared to almost 4000 of another director demonstrates his small role in the bank.  And beyond that, the assests of the bank were worth only a few million or so.  (so states your links) Hardly a serious role in the rearming of Germany.  Don't fogret that Bush son, George, while he could have opted out, instead of enrolling into his first year at Yale, enrolled in the Navy and flew in the Pacific.  He just as easily could have been serving in Europe.  Do you really think his Dad would be trying to help the enemy his own son was fighting?

Doesn't the fact that over 50 years later no serious journalist has pursued this hit you with a little reality?  There's no story there.  Even Dan Rather didn't go down this route....despite his new standard for sources "fake, but accurate!"  

And your other quote:

Les Ismore wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 14:19

These are the people now in control of the US and soon the rest of the world.



Still now answer about how W will manage this?

And even still....beyond all that....even if Bush's ancestors were guilty...SO WHAT?  It staggers the mind that one will judge a man for the actions of something that occurred before he was born.  It's not just un-American.  It's not befitting ANY civilized country.  If you believe this to be true and find Bush guilty, how then do we deal with the Germans?  Or ever make progress toward peace?

This kind of idiocy is why Jews and Arabs, Irish Protestant and Catholics, Sudanese Musilms & Christians (as well as those in the Balkans) are still fighting each other.  Your accusations promote that kind of bad thinking and are the bad fruit of policial correctness we've had to endure for these many years.

You don't like Bush?  Fine.  Deal with him why don't you?  I'll make my last line your last one...too bad you don't understand it.

"If you want make a wave, make it about something that matters."

Sorry for being so long-winded.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2005, 01:16:18 am »

David Schober wrote on Sun, 27 February 2005 21:35

Howdy Malice,

Well I should have expected this kind of response.  Within the 17 links you gave, most of them linked to each other, and several of the rest were actually reports of the same source story, the NH Gazette story in link #1.



Ok, let's get on with this:

Let's start with the source. I did have read some of these you know. The source seems to be from declassified national archive and not the NH Gazette. What I mean by that is that there is little official disclaimer from the Bush family or the US gvt about this issue, or maybe I have missed the obvious through my research. If so, I would love you to find a link.

You mean that internet can give you evidence of anything ?
Yes you are probably right, and I'll be damn if I can't find a lunatic claiming that GW is found of little boys if I google long enough. But I was in fact reacting to your response to Les Ismore when you asked him to show a link to backup his claim. I founded amusing that I could find hundreds of them in one clic (not 17), it's GOT to be related to some kinda truth don't you think ? I mean, I found hundreds backing it up and none disclaiming it ...

Quote:

Now about those links of yours...

The source story in the NH Gazette was written by a man named Buchanan who is  discussed in link #7.  The Guardian described him as a "muckraking reporter" suffering from manic depression.  Continuing on the Guaridan wrote, "when he found himself rebuffed in his initial efforts to interest the media, he responded with a series of threats against the journalists and media outlets that had spurned him..... Most seriously, he faced aggravated stalking charges in Miami, in connection with a man with whom he had fallen out over the best way to publicise his findings."

From what I can tell Buchanan is the primary torch bearer of this story carried though most of these sites.  Hardly a real journalist.


Well, again, how come that no reaction is disclaiming this story. Is this gazette a real or a fake Newspaper, and if it is real, how come that a "writer" can say things without backing them up ? How come that the guy was not sued and the NH Gazette forced to withdraw the article ?


Quote:


"While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade."


"Loftus stressed that what Prescott Bush was involved in was just what many other American and British businessmen were doing at the time.
"You can't blame Bush for what his grandfather did any more than you can blame Jack Kennedy for what his father did - bought Nazi stocks."
(By the way, I noticed you didn't comment on that)

Regarding the investigation into Bush's involvement with Thyssen:

"Prescott Bush acted quickly and openly on behalf of the firm, served well by a reputation that had never been compromised. He made available all records and all documents. Viewed six decades later in the era of serial corporate scandals and shattered careers, he received what can be viewed as the ultimate clean bill."


"The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."
This is despite the fact that the Jewish community still votes strongly Democratic.

"Fritz Thyssen was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. His position with Union Banking never was a political issue for Bush, who was elected to the Senate from Connecticut in 1952."

Suddenly your hardcore accusations don't carry as much weight.  Bear in mind, these are quotes from the very sites you listed.



I haven't made hardcore accusations, I provided links to back up Les Ismore.

I never said Bush was a Nazi, I only agree with the fact that he was part of a bunch of business men that made money with the wrong guys. I mean, they did business with them when Hitler was in charge. Of course he was not alone, and I know damn well that Joe Kennedy had dirty hands as well. That is not my point.

My point was that what Les Ismore said is true

Wether you should let a man whose father or grand father did business with the enemy being a president is something irrelevant in this very thread, but something you had to answer while voting. I'm not a US citizen, it is YOUR problem.

I hope you do not misread me and make mistake about my point


malice

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2005, 01:56:00 pm »

Written by Tik:
Quote:


There is a difference between joking about Hitler and being a fukked up kunt.


Can I use that as my signature?

BTW, where does Mel Brooks fit into this debate?

Justin
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stevieeastend

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2005, 02:06:04 am »

I guess right between John Wayne and Rammstein...

cheers
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2005, 03:25:11 am »

LMFAO...

Justin..

I would be honored

Lemme nough






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henchman

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2005, 12:14:32 am »

David Schober wrote on Sun, 27 February 2005 01:28


Also, please share how W will control the entire world in the next few years.  Seems to me he's got enough opposition here already.



Yes, well this is one thing that we can pretty much be sure of that won't happen.

The way Bush is going, America will be bankrupt, and far from the superpower it hoped to be.

The economy isn't really getting better, inflation and unemployment and the deficit are up. And there's this moneypit of a war that is causing the US to hemmorhage money like a leaky waterpipe.

t(h)ik

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2005, 12:42:32 am »

Yep you're right, that's the end of America....and not a moment too soon....whew
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max cooper

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2005, 08:32:15 pm »

Hey, sixtiksix, is the photo of John Banner on your avatar a response to this thread, or was it there long before?  

I guess it's common knowledge that (big time conductor) Otto Klemperer's son was Werner Klemperer who starred in Hogan's Heroes as Col. Klink along with John Banner.  I guess the story is that Pop Klemperer was none too pleased about son's portrayal of a Col. at a German prison camp in WWII.  

I always liked the show, though.  It was one of my mid-seventies after school faves, second only to Star Trek (not currently a Trekkie, though.)  In hindsight, doesn't it seem amazing that that show originally aired just two decades after the war?

Hogan's Heroes reminds me of kiddie porn, though (if that doesn't mean anything, look up Bob Crane's Bio.)  Gee, now I'm offended.
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t(h)ik

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2005, 02:42:46 pm »

Um,

You've got issues   Smile

Thank you for inquiring...lol...


Actually it is the perfect avatar for me because I am such a clueless bastard and I currently reside in the Fatherland.

But my Avatar is of Sgt. Schultz, not John Banner.

Banner was smart enough to take a powder (like Einstein) before the holocaust (since he went to church on Saturday) and went to Hollywood and cashed in!

As for Bobby boy, he definitely got what he deserved.

LeBeau (sp?) was (is?) a concentration camp survivor.

And to answer your question, it is my original avatar....I am not the type of person that goes changing his avatar to cater to the latest thread or fad....

Until they give me the fukken boot in the ass it will be Sgt Schultz....UP THE IRONS!

Lemme nough

TIK




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danickstr

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2005, 06:53:12 am »

we all have issues..no need to single this guy out.  My issue is that people would take offense at a compressor setting name.  I often quote Hitler, and i am sure i offend people when i do, but the one thing that he said, and i would love to know who told him and then i could quote them is "make your weakest area your strongest through focus" or something like that.  I just say "Hitler said to make your weakest area your strongest"  and people look at me as if i am crazy.  but its just good advice and it makes sense that he would have said it because he did have some good strategies or he never would have gotten as far as he did.  Referencing hitlers book in a compressor setting seems to actually do some good, since i am sure a lot of 20 something musicians probably don't really know that much about hitler and this could be an ice breaker to introducing them to history.  I just hope someone here thinks i am defending hitler, since i didnt denounce him, that would be funny.  Sick people can do a lot of harm, for sure, but that doesnt mean that they are the only ones responsible for their sickness or their support.  Ultimately, yes they are, but a lot of criminals are just souls that weren't tended to in an appropriate manner, and never could get over it.  Most of us do.  Some hurt so badly that they have to hurt others.  These we need to destroy, lol.  Well we need to fix them or incarcerate them, but only after the crime.  and that's the problem.  Minority report could have got Hitler locked up before his first atrocity, but psychological profiling is not that advanced yet.  and besides, people can fool people.  sorry, i am blathering...late night not sleeping session, but take from it what you can.  peace.
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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2005, 11:33:33 am »

I am thrilled and overjoyed you have the self-assertion to go around quoting Hitler.

People like you reaffirm my faith in the spirit of the Western World.

I too have quoted Hitler on numerous occasions at my local gasthaus, sometimes without knowing it, while attempting to order schnitzel and multiple beers.

As far I as know most of these foreign types are prone to quoting Der Fuhrer as well, and not just those with Microsoft Certifications.  I have heard farmers here as well as shop keepers speaking German fluently, and for all I know.....

Thank you for the lucid debate...

Your friend among the Teutonic Hordes...

TIK
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t(h)ik

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2005, 08:47:40 pm »

Some of my fav quotes from the big guy:

"Wait a minute, France is allied with Britain and the United States?"

"Those don't look like our planes."

"Give me five years and you won't recognize Germany." (well, actual quote)

"Man, it's getting stuffy in here, somebody open a ventilation shaft."

"Yes Joseph, be a good chap and run out to the pharmacy and pick up 600 cyanide tablets would ya."

"Man Ozzy's band sure went down hill over the last five years hasn't it?"

"Ausfarht!"

Hope this helps.

He liked dogs you know.

TIK



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danickstr

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2005, 11:24:55 pm »

My favorite:

Those don't look like our planes. Laughing
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