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Author Topic: Native Instruments Hitler Humor  (Read 9101 times)

Piyono

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Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« on: December 10, 2004, 02:30:34 pm »

I was using Native Instruments' Guitar Rig at a local studio today when I came across a preset in the compressor module named "Mein Comp". I don't know if this is supposed to be a play on Hitler's "Mein Kampf", but if it is, it sure as hell isn't funny.

I emailed my concerns to NI on Tuesday night, asking for an explanation, further stating that I would post my findings with the pro audio community at large if they didn't get back to me by Friday at 2:00 pm. It's now past 2:00 pm and I've heard nothing from them, so I'm fulfilling my end of the ultimatum.

As you may have guessed Third-Reich-Revisionist humour does not amuse me, unless the Third Reich is at the butt of the jokes.

While I Native Instruments arguably cannot help that one of their programmers has neo-Nazi proclivities, they had damned well make sure that potentially offensive shit like that gets squelched during alpha testing. The fact that "Mein Comp" made it into the release is a bit shocking, I mean, how many people read those preset names during the development phase? During Alpha testing? Beta Testing? Release Candidates?

Anyway, all I want is for NI to acknowledge the error and correct it in the next release.

I'm usually pretty quiet on these forums but this sorta irked me. Sorry if it starts a flame war.

This message will be cross-posted to the following forums:
Gearslutz
EQ
Pro Sound Web
rec.audio.pro
3D Audio

Time to get ready for Shabbat.


Piyono
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 06:32:09 pm »

I think it's sick, you have my respect.
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Min Dara

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2004, 07:53:27 pm »

I think you're just being a touchy dumbass.  

It's very mild humor, and it's not praising or acclaiming Hitler's accomplishments.

Before you label me a Nazi, know that my relatives were gassed by his government because they were jews.

This is just a preset.  Hitler's dead, and his empire is history.  
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Lee Tyler

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2004, 09:45:57 am »

Quote:

I think you're just being a touchy dumbass.


Faeflora, we could do without that name-throwing, eh? Very easy to make your point without that shite. "It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it."  ---Leeflora
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Doctor to nurse: "Nurse, tell him I can't see him"

Jonas as

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 11:04:53 am »

My Comp / Mein Comp

Theres no law against the widely used german language, is it, mein herr?

BTW, relatives of mine spent time/died in his camps too.....
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 11:58:05 am »

bora wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 16:04

My Comp / Mein Comp

Theres no law against the widely used german language, is it, mein herr?

BTW, relatives of mine spent time/died in his camps too.....


You just don't get it do you? Mein Kampf was written by an asshole called Adolf Hitler who happens to be responsible for the murder of how million people, 26 million?

He and his friends were about to exterminate an entire race.

People were transported by caddle trains to 'holyday camps' and when arrived they were asked to put off their shoes and tie them together and leave their things just  were they stood, in order to enjoy a 'shower' first.

But there was no water coming out of the shower.

After an hour and a half all had died except a kid of three or four years old, who was crying over the dead body of mom or dad.
Then came some 'holydaycamp guard' who shot the sweet little kid through the head.

There are stories about a toddler, asking: where is my mommie? to the guard, who answered: she's just leaving the chimney.

So, when one names a preset or plug 'Mein comp' which without any doubt refers to 'Mein Kampf', that's utterly sick, period.
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Jonas as

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2004, 12:17:41 pm »

Han S. wrote on Sun, 12 December 2004 17:58

 'Mein comp' which without any doubt refers to 'Mein Kampf'



Han,
Thats the only thing we disagree on. I do not think mein  comp refers to mein kampf, if it did, it would have been sick.
(I have visited both Auschwitz-Birkenau and Sachsenhausen, which is the places where people of my family was kept/killed)

You might not know that Native Instruments is an German company, wich often use German-spellings and patch names in their products. Mein Comp is simply My Comp, with their USUAL(in some plugs) German spelling. (as you should understand yourself with a language closer to the german than mine...)  
Hope it's clearer now.  
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Han S.

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2004, 02:41:49 pm »

Well, it could be and I hope you're right, in that case I apologise.

But OTOH, hve you read the first post? The guy emailed NI this:
"I emailed my concerns to NI on Tuesday night, asking for an explanation, further stating that I would post my findings with the pro audio community at large if they didn't get back to me by Friday at 2:00 pm. It's now past 2:00 pm and I've heard nothing from them, so I'm fulfilling my end of the ultimatum".

Why didn't they bother to give him a decent answer?

Peace, Han
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Brendo

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2004, 02:43:14 am »

Did you consider that maybe they get far more email than you realise, and it may take weeks or months until this one pops up at the top of the list?

Secondly, the point about NI being a German company is very valid.

Thirdly - how do you know NI supplied that particular preset?
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From Douglas Adams and John Lloyd's "The Meaning of Liff":

ALLTAMI (n.)
The ancient art of being able to balance the hot and cold shower taps.

Ralf Kleemann

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2004, 06:16:09 am »

Being a German native speaker, I feel that "Mein Comp" does call for the analogy that you mentioned. So if it is a pun, it's a bad one, and it's certainly inappropriate to build such a reference into a publicly available product. Sue them for what my dictionary calls "injunctive relief" if that helps your cause. The accused may argue, however, that having an unsubtle moment does not automatically make them neo-nazis.

Best regards,
Ralf

Fletcher

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2004, 10:39:56 am »

Interestingly, it was companies like Neumann and Studer that led to the rise of the Nazi's... in fact the Reich overlooked the minor inconvenience that Georg Neumann's wife [which according to our law means that also his children] was Jewish.  

The Reich also mandated that every home have a radio, the advent of the tape recorder was during this time and the allied forces were amazed that the speeches were presented as perfectly as they were [not having tape and razor blades at their disposal all they understood was direct to disk... they didn't have a Pro-Tools rig yet so they didn't understand editing]... the authority with which these inflamatory speeches were delivered motivated a country to action!!  The Neumann CMV-3 microphones also lent themselves to the authority and clarity of this vocal communication... and we all saw where this kind of motivation led.  Granted there was an air of frustration left over from the first world war... but the exploitation of this frustration was pretty much the media invention of some sick motherfuckers.

Mass communication and propaganda is still a problem... access to public airwaves without varying views is still a huge problem.  The constriction of ownership of media outlets is one of the most frightening things to me in recent times!!  I have a fucking moron for a President to proove it.

There are basicly half a dozen media concerns in the US... we have a very well regulated set of messages that are disseminated to the general public, the opposing viewpoints few and far between and you actually have to actively search for them.  Not that these opposing viewpoints are necessarily correct, but they do force you to think and draw your own conclusions.

My point being that when M-A pointed out the Neumann/Nazi lineage I was seen as an insensitive asshole.  My point was to embarass a company whose history I abhor, who turned to what I felt were similar practices taken by their original backers though obviously to a far lesser extreme.

Knowing history will help us prevent repeating history... understanding how the history of the tools and product we create can indeed influence real/actual world events is of paramount importance... getting your panties in a bunch over the possible misinterpretation of the name of a product... well this served two purposes... the first, never forget [an important one in my book]; the second, to promote a product I for one had never heard of...

Whether the name of this patch was intentional or not seems somewhat irrelevant after all the ruckus these posts have managed to stir up... making people think is always a good thing.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Piyono

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2004, 11:58:27 am »

Forgive me good readers, for not following up on any of these forums until now. I didn't consider, when cross-posting that I may actually have to defend myself in the ensuing discussions. This is my blanket reply to everyone. It will be my final cross-post. If anyone would like to rebuke me further I'll be at Gearslutz, 'cos that's where the bulk of the replies have originated. Thank you. Now for my reply...

I occasionally wonder about the individuals responsible for inflamatory posts and the threads spawned thereof. The eggers-on. That somebody would invest so much time and energy into rousing rabble astounds me. I mean, how petty and unproductive an occupation can there *be*?
Then again, I don't really give the matter *too* much though because, frankly, I'm not a heavy usenet/forum poster. Besides, long debates make my head spin. Couple that with the fact that I'm a slower writer than I am a reader and it becomes most impractical for me to pound away at the nets all day. I don't get involved in OTDs. It's just never been my thang. I'm going somewhere with this, really.

Getting back to the trolls, just What makes them tick? Well, through my recent posting experience I have gained valuable insight to the psyche of the troll and I feel that I'm now in the position to comment. Broken down into his most basic elements (I use the masculine only as a linguistic convenience) the troll is thoroughly bored, possibly lonely, somewhat pathetic, and looking for attention. I say this with absolute certainty because those were four accurate descriptors of my state when I posted my own inflammatory remarks on Friday afternoon. Of course the key element at play here is attention, and I can now tell you first hand that getting a rise out of dozens upon dozens of people, for whatever reason, brings with it a *huge* rush which feels *incredibly* gratifying. I speculate that if three of the conditions (boredom, loneliness, pathos) do not change, the troll will feed off any attention directed his way and continue trolling indefinitely.

If you've ever suggested to a troll that he has too much time on his hands or commented on his pitiful state of existence you would have been correct. However, If you have ever wanted to *know* the troll, to *understand* him... then know me, for I have joined their ranks. (Some of you might rephrase that to "sunk to their depths". Hey, It's all good).

It just so happens that last week all the conditions were right for me to engage in this decidedly trollish behavior:
I practically hadn't left the house in over a week and a half due to an injury I sustained last Monday (Front wheel popped off my bicycle and the resulting wipe-out saw me tear some ligaments in my right shoulder [I'm a righty], bruise a few ribs, pinch a nerve in my back and accrue a general assortment of scrapes and bruises. No, I didn't hit my head. Yes, I'm a lot better now, thank you very much) and I was arguably the most bored, lonely and pathetic that I've ever been. Add to this the fact that I *do* rather get a kick out of crafting diatribes (they're a real treat, y'know, because how often do I get worked up enough about something to muster up the gumption to trash it in writing? Not too often) and I was powerless to resist. I *really* needed something to do. And I found it.

As most of us well know, there can be drawn a clear distinction between an idea and its presentation. Sitting here now I can think of ten ways that I could have approached the issue. At the time, however, I was fueled by some understandably negative energy which lent a decidedly, over-the-top, mean-spirited tone to my letter. This is not to say that the matter doesn't concern me - because it does - only that the manner in which I handled it was grossly overblown. I mean, *boy* did I pick a roundabout way of saying "hey, guys, does this seem as tasteless to you as it does to me? In short I recant the delivery but my initial concern stands.

Unfortunately for me, even though *I* know that my personality type is polar opposite of an antagonist, the burden of redeeming my name is now on my shoulders, alone, because I post on these boards so infrequently that I've got nobody to back me up.

Live and learn.

Piyono
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Peter Weihe

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2004, 09:01:54 pm »

Dear Piyono, dear Han,

I have met the guys of Native Instruments some week s ago.
They came to my studio and we compared their Vox AC 30 modeling to the real thing and worked on some of their pre sets.
My impression was that they were freaks with long hair, probably with some pot in their pockets, their look being pretty grungy just the opposite of Neo Nazis.
On the other side I don't think that they could ever have that strange kind of black humor.
I even wouldn't call it humor anymore to call a preset " Mein comp".
I noticed that they were constantly using very personal names for settings that we had found and whenever one of them liked a sound they stored it with a name they could remember later . That particular preset probably was just a setting that one of  them favored and he used the German word for "my" and the English short form of compressor for it.
We are using  Amercian words for audio equipment , controls and settings over here and we simply can't remember the German words for it for anymore.
I follow Ralf Kleemann because with a typical  German pronunciation "comp" simply doesn't sound like " Kampf". But I can perfectly  understand why you had that association.
My girlfriend is Irish. She grew up in London and she is studying Amercian, English and German literature and culture. She wrote a work in linguistics about English singers that have a American pronunciation whenever they sing and a have posh British pronunciation  when they speak.
Elton John is a brilliant excample for that. BTW Even The Beatles did it in their Rockn'n Roll Days and as they were getting more and more self confident over the years they had more of a British accent .From this I learned that the American pronunciation of "comp" is pretty different from the English . The American "o" in "comp" actually is similar to the German "a" in "Kampf". The pronunciation that we learn in school over here is supposed to be British English but what comes out is English with a funny strong German accent.
So believe me, as Ralf said, nobody over here would think of
"Kampf" when  using the word "comp". unless he had spent a year in the States.
What makes it even harder for us to learn the proper pronunciation than for citizens of other European countries is, that we never have the chance to watch American or English movies in the original English version on German TV. All movies are synchronized.   Due to that Scandinavian or Dutch singers sound much more like native speakers when singing English lyrics because they grew up with the original movies.
German singers for example tend to constantly changing the dialect they are singing in varying from British Cockney to Texan or BBC English with that typical German accent.
That is giving us a hard time whenever we produce an American song with a German singer.

I am convinced that the guys from Native Instruments haven't even noticed how their " Mein Comp" can be understood in the USA and  they will probably be shocked when they will get my call tomorrow.
I will ask them to change that name.
My generation hates the Nazis so much that we don't want to be associated with them.
That's one of the many reasons why I don't like "Ramstein".
They are consciously playing  with elements of that time, taking the risk that young people are fascinated by these symbols,  just for their personal profit.
Fletcher is right, we must try to learn from history, never forget the Nazis and their terror and their system of manipulation and promotion.
That was one of the main questions my generation was constantly asking the the previous generation. " How was that possible?????????"
" How could that happen"?????????????????????????

We better keep our eyes open and and I hope that whenever another lunatic will try to promote his sick ideology of being superior to any other human being somebody will notice it and post it.
The INTERNET is a real chance for us today.

Thanks for keeping your eyes open.
Sorry for that Naive (Instruments) usage of your language.

By the way , Fletcher, I think that not only the clarity of the Neumann mics helped the Nazis with their promotion but also valve distortion.
Whenever that idiot was getting angry during his speeches,
(as Charly Chaplin perfectly imitated ) that distortion and compression of the following stages helped him to sound present and powerful.

Best regards,
Peter
























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Peter Weihe

joanna ardalan

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2004, 06:04:26 pm »

Native Instruments would like to clear up a misunderstanding that has arisen with regard to GUITAR RIG. A user has pointed out that there is a preset in GUITAR RIG's compressor entitled "Mein Comp". The user then made the suggestion that this was a deliberate play on the book entitled "Mein Kampf".

This is not the case at all. The preset name is merely an abbreviation, albeit a German one. The German word "Mein" means "my" and "Comp" is short for "compressor". In view of the fact that Native Instruments is in fact a German company and the sound designer is also German, the origins and intentions of this preset name are understandable and have nothing whatsoever to do with "Mein Kampf", the Third Reich, NAZIs or indeed any other unsavoury connotations.

However, in order to ensure that any further misinterpretations do not occur in the future, this preset will be substituted for one entitled "My Compressor". Native Instruments would like to apologize for any misunderstandings and any offence this might have caused.
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Fibes

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Re: Native Instruments Hitler Humor
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2004, 09:49:13 am »

Now that we have that cleared up can we get rid of the Vlad the Impaler preset on the UAD Precision limiter? uh...
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Fibes
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