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Author Topic: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering  (Read 22231 times)

blairl

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2004, 03:32:10 PM »

bobkatz wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 10:12

In this critical, calibrated mastering room I could say unequivocably that the later ones were just squashed, the life slowly but surely being limited or compressed out of them....So it boils down to, did the devil make our friend Doug do it, was there some other factor happening (like the source tape was not as good or was squashed a bit itself), or was it the same reflex that makes me or any other mastering engineer do it at least once a week and then regret it  Sad

BK


I don't have my copy with me at the moment but I think "The Seventh One" that George is talking about, (which he also engineered), was done around 1987 before the level wars began full force.  As I recall, this CD is full of dynamics and is a great example of what is right with mixing and mastering.  If I play it back to back with more modern recordings I definitely have to reach for the volume control.  That's a good thing.
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bobkatz

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2004, 05:15:57 PM »

blairl wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 15:32



I don't have my copy with me at the moment but I think "The Seventh One" that George is talking about, (which he also engineered), was done around 1987 before the level wars began full force.  As I recall, this CD is full of dynamics and is a great example of what is right with mixing and mastering.  If I play it back to back with more modern recordings I definitely have to reach for the volume control.  That's a good thing.




I don't think I heard "The Seventh One". I can't remember which Toto CDs we auditioned...
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George Massenburg

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2004, 06:31:00 PM »

Eric Rudd wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 09:13


Let's not forget Al Schmitt. I'm fairly sure he tracked a good part of Toto IV, including Rosanna.
[...]


Maybe.  "Africa" for sure.

George
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Steve G

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2004, 08:03:28 PM »

I just asked Al about Toto IV.  He told me he did all the basic tracking and a lot of the overdubs over at Sunset Sound.

Steve
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Level

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2004, 08:08:33 PM »

...I would love to hear Als' opinion of the SACD release. What a fine production though..
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Eric Rudd

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2004, 09:59:52 PM »

Awhile back, when I was an assistant, I asked Jeff Porcaro to play the opening fill into the groove of Rosanna while we were setting up for a session.   Very Happy

Man, was I such an impressionable young pup.

Eric
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Rail Jon Rogut

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2004, 02:17:06 AM »

Toto IV would have been Greg Ladanyi at Record One I believe (on the old yellow API with GML wire wrapped automation).

Rail
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adamcal

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2004, 03:52:35 AM »

As a sound engineer im always listening to sounds, mix and mastering on most Cd's.   But for me at least, TOTO is a bit different.

Im such a fan of the band and the music that I stop listening to the sounds so much and just revert to being a music Fan.

Perhaps thats a testament to how good they sound.

Ive mentioned it to GM in the past, and to those others here who have worked with the band,  thanks for your great work.

Steve G you worked on Tambu?  Awesome CD, whatever you did on there, Great job. and despite what I said above, it sets one of the high water marks in production for me. I wrote to Elliot Scheiner and told him the same.

to Bob Katz, While im with you all the way on being anti over-squash, I didn't find Minefields "that" bad at all. Not like some things out there, or perhaps it is, and I don't notice cause I like the songs.  PS, IM half way through your book, and enjoying it.  

here is a pic of my living room wall.
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Giovanni Speranza

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2004, 06:43:35 AM »

 Sad  I compared my Toto IV vinyl with my Toto IV CD.
The CD sounds like crap, compared to the analog version.
Why? It's simply the digital process or it's the mastering engineer/gears that killed the sound? (Maybe they mastered it on a Pro Tools III)

Level

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2004, 06:54:04 AM »

Joe, the SACD (super audio compact disc) is much WORSE that the inferior CD. How about that!
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Giovanni Speranza

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2004, 07:43:37 AM »

 Are you kidding? Shocked

J.J. Blair

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2004, 11:02:54 AM »

Level wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 10:37

Toto IV on SACD sucks profusely.

Poor Mastering. Total injustice of the format. Someone must have not listened to it or had a horrible room, was just plain ignorant or all of the above.

It could have been done better running a set of auratones in a public restroom.


LMFAO!  Bill, how do you really feel?  That is some funny shit.

I don't remember which song it was, so nobody will have to worry about being incriminated, but I recall seeing a Toto video on TV years ago, and the solo was inaudible.  My guess was that the solo was mixed in stereo and accidentally out of phase?  Oops!  Like I always say, check your mixes in mono before printing them!

OK, time for one of my very funny Lukather stories: I'm at a BBQ 10 years ago and Luke is there.  Everybody there, including myself, was in ther 20s except for Luke, and I was the only person aside from the host who knew him.  We are sitting around a table and getting into a nostalgic '80s music conversation, naming different bands that were hallmarks of the era. Somebody says, "How about Toto?"  This was met with  an immediate "I hate that fucking band," and people start bitching about Toto, etc.  Luke raises his hand and says, "Thank you very much. That's my band."  He turns to  me and says something like "You know you've made it when people sit around talking about how much they hate your band."  

He took it really well though. I'm sure he was really concerned what these kids thought as he climbed into his $120,000 sports car and drove back to his multi-million dollar home.  It was a pretty funny moment though, and he saw the humor in it, which is good, because since he dishes it out regularly, it's nice to see that he can take it, too.  I cracked him real good (I mean, just brutally) before the afternoon was over, but that's a story for another time.
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stevieeastend

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2004, 12:26:04 PM »

Hi Bill, welcome to the club!
Maybe it was the mastering engineer, maybe the mastering house didn?t test the format for the plant properly,  maybe the clock, maybe the clock at the plant, maybe...

maybe it was just a bad mastering guy doing a very bad job. But to be honest, I cannot believe this simply because I cannot image that the person, who was responsible for the CD releases of TOTO was not aware that sound was always a very strong factor of the music of TOTO and who would not take care of this as this is something, which you would owe to the fans? The same is true for the mastering engineer! I cannot image that he didn?t care..



stevieeastend

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2004, 12:29:05 PM »

Sorry!
My post was a reply to Joe Speranza wondering why the TOTO CDs sound so crap in comparison the Vinyl..
Bob may forgive me...

George Massenburg

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Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2004, 09:25:38 PM »

Rail Jon Rogut wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 01:17

Toto IV would have been Greg Ladanyi at Record One I believe (on the old yellow API with GML wire wrapped automation).

Rail


Rail,

Would you please take a deeeep breath and let go of the fucking wire-wrapped SMPTE card???  That is soooo 20 minutes ago...

Thanks,
George
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