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[tanov]

Hi,
Do you know that the sound of ToTo CDs is a standard for sound engineering in Bulgaria?  I've studied all about the sound concept in mixing, especially the drums.

In Bulgarian sound studios are popular "Tambu" and new albums to now. In "Tambu" the sound concept was changed. You 'll see the differences in drums (for example "Rosanna", etc.). Drums sound more aggressive. It is coused by high level of low frequencies (near 35Hz) and deep filtering of 100Hz. This cut-off makes cheap loud-speakers to sound like large expensive boxes. But there are many tricks...I'll be glad to discuss them with
other sound engineers  

[George Massenburg]

tanov wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 05:45

Hi, Do you know that the sound of ToTo CDs is a standard for sound engineering in Bulgaria?  I've studied all about the sound concept in mixing, especially the drums. In Bulgarian sound studios are popular "Tambu" and new albums to now. In "Tambu" the sound concept was changed. You 'll see the differences in drums (for example "Rosanna", etc.). Drums sound more aggressive. It is coused by high level of low frequencies (near 35Hz) and deep filtering of 100Hz. This cut-off makes cheap loud-speakers to sound like large expensive boxes. But there are many tricks...I'll be glad to discuss them with other sound engineers

The guys in Toto have always had high standards for engineering and production.  Sometimes  I thought it got in the way of the music, but it was always their choice.  

Still the 35Hz thing you mention is certainly puzzling.  And I don't understand the 100Hz cut-off.  Are you saying that speakers and systems manufactured there in Bulgaria have 100Hz cut-offs?  

Beyond that, musically, and sonically, there are differences between Jeff Porcaro and Simon Phillips  that're hard to miss.

George

[tanov]

Someone has wrote that you are ToTo's sound engineer.Is it
true?  

And about 100Hz I mean that in new ToTo records the 100Hz
is filtered (but not absolutely   )and the "boommm" sound
is missing and they sound expensive  

[archtop]

you might be right,



but a huge bump at 35 ?


I'm skeptical

[Steve G]

I worked on that record with Elliot Scheiner, and I don't recall a large bump at 35Hz.  I'll have to go back and listen.    I recall Simon's drums being big (both in size and sound), and I doubt Elliot filtered any low end out of them.  Remember, the older Toto records had to be mixed and mastered for vinyl, so some low freq may have needed to be filtered out on those records.  Also, as George stated, Jeff and Simon are very different drummers.

Steve

[Giovanni Speranza]

The highest standart Toto reached was in  Toto IV, the best of sound, performance, punch and nuances

[bobkatz]

Joe Speranza wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:52

The highest standart Toto reached was in  Toto IV, the best of sound, performance, punch and nuances

Pity that each Toto master as the years went on was louder and more and more compressed. Toto is a perfect example of how the loudness race is ruining sound.

BK

[Alécio Costa - Brazil]

HI,
I am a huge fan of Toto. I do have most of their records and have been using some of their stuff to mix and master my forthcoming album. Toto IV, Fahrenheit, Kingdom of desire and Mindfields are my favorite ones.

George, Elliot and Clearmountain did their records, right?
Probably this is one of the main reasons they are great sounding CDs.Of course they are great players and composers.

However, I hear some L2 crappy symptons  probably due to the squeezed mastering on some songs at Mindfields.

There are some songs at this very same album that the bass is aburdly loud and all you see are red lights on most of the time. No much dynamic range in there. If you compare to Fahrenheit and Toto IV, which are much quieter albums, you miss the old dynamic days.

I also do not think they would make a bump at 35 and cut 100, really does not make sense. Also, small speakers would probably have a big difficulty translating such frequency range properly as you pointed out. Plesae someones correct me if I am wrong.

The songs "Rosanna" and "I will be over you" are one of the most played songs in FM stations until recent days.

Lea, Africa, Love is on the line, Stranger in town, Hollyanna were greats past success here in Brazil also.

[eightyeightkeys]

IMHO, Toto, "The Seventh One" is superb.

BIG dynamic swings on that CD. Love it.

[tanov]

I don't mean "high bump of 35Hz and cut of 100Hz"  
The acoustic drum set has high level of frequencies near 100Hz
and sounds bad.I mean that adequate cutting of 100Hz (-3dB to -6dB) makes the drum set to sound like high-end professional
sound modules.And I was misunderstood about 35Hz .
I mean that compensation of low frequencies (below 50Hz) fixes the microphone's drop in this range  .
You know that sound modules has drum samples with deep sound EQ.
Real acoustic drum set is far of this sound.The levels below 50Hz
is too low and sound engineers rise them artificially  

That is my opinion,  
I like the sound of drum sound modules and it's hard to
reach this sound from a real drum set. But ToTo have done this  

[George Massenburg]

bobkatz wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:13

Pity that each Toto master as the years went on was louder and more and more compressed. Toto is a perfect example of how the loudness race is ruining sound. BK

I dunno, Bob.  Toto 7 was pretty moderate by today's standards.  It was a Doug Sax job.

George

[Eric Rudd]

Al ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rudd efrudd@gmail.com For an engineering discography, please see www.allmusic.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bobkatz Hero Member Offline Posts: 2926 Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering George Massenburg wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 06:48 bobkatz wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:13 Pity that each Toto master as the years went on was louder and more and more compressed. Toto is a perfect example of how the loudness race is ruining sound. BK I dunno, Bob.  Toto 7 was pretty moderate by today's standards.  It was a Doug Sax job. George I dont' have the Toto CDs in my possession, George, but one of my friends brought over some Totos, starting with the oldest and going down to the latest mastering. In this critical, calibrated mastering room I could say unequivocably that the later ones were just squashed, the life slowly but surely being limited or compressed out of them. Compared to modern pop stuff? No, of course not, but on a very objective basis, each succeeding year is hotter and has less dynamics. In our heart of hearts we cannot justify a mastering job that doesn't sound as good as the source. So it boils down to, did the devil make our friend Doug do it, was there some other factor happening (like the source tape was not as good or was squashed a bit itself), or was it the same reflex that makes me or any other mastering engineer do it at least once a week and then regret it   BK There are two kinds of fools, One says-this is old and therefore good. The other says-this is new and therefore better." No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Touchwood Studios Jr. Member Offline Posts: 78 Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering I have the ToTo live in Amsterdam DVD. The sound is impressive, Vocals are killer I wonder how much of that DVD was re-done in the stdio. I know a couple of the "Live" DVD's that were completely re-done in the studio in post production. But all that aside I still really like the DVD. I give it my "Worth Seeing" seal. Level Hero Member Offline Posts: 1811 Re: ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering Toto IV on SACD sucks profusely. I am not the only one that says so.. Poor Mastering. Total injustice of the format. Someone must have not listened to it or had a horrible room, was just plain ignorant or all of the above. It could have been done better running a set of auratones in a public restroom.  http://www.highfidelityreviews.net/reviews/review.asp?review number=598768 http://balancedmastering.com "Listen and Learn" ---Since 1975--- Print Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All   Go Up « previous next » R/E/P Community > R/E/P > R/E/P Archives > Reason In Audio > ToTo - The standard for Sound Engineering   SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies XHTML RSS WAP2 Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc. Page created in 0.101 seconds with 17 queries.

[bobkatz]

George Massenburg wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 06:48

bobkatz wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:13 Pity that each Toto master as the years went on was louder and more and more compressed. Toto is a perfect example of how the loudness race is ruining sound. BK I dunno, Bob.  Toto 7 was pretty moderate by today's standards.  It was a Doug Sax job. George

I dont' have the Toto CDs in my possession, George, but one of my friends brought over some Totos, starting with the oldest and going down to the latest mastering. In this critical, calibrated mastering room I could say unequivocably that the later ones were just squashed, the life slowly but surely being limited or compressed out of them.

Compared to modern pop stuff? No, of course not, but on a very objective basis, each succeeding year is hotter and has less dynamics. In our heart of hearts we cannot justify a mastering job that doesn't sound as good as the source. So it boils down to, did the devil make our friend Doug do it, was there some other factor happening (like the source tape was not as good or was squashed a bit itself), or was it the same reflex that makes me or any other mastering engineer do it at least once a week and then regret it  

BK

[Touchwood Studios]

I have the ToTo live in Amsterdam DVD. The sound is impressive, Vocals are killer I wonder how much of that DVD was re-done in the stdio. I know a couple of the "Live" DVD's that were completely re-done in the studio in post production.
But all that aside I still really like the DVD. I give it my "Worth Seeing" seal.

[Level]

Toto IV on SACD sucks profusely.

I am not the only one that says so..


Poor Mastering. Total injustice of the format. Someone must have not listened to it or had a horrible room, was just plain ignorant or all of the above.

It could have been done better running a set of auratones in a public restroom.

 http://www.highfidelityreviews.net/reviews/review.asp?review number=598768