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Author Topic: Speaking of Jefferson  (Read 14703 times)

MedicineDog

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2004, 04:09:39 pm »

Brent wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 11:38

...believes that birth starts at conception, but murder is ok?


Oh, you mean like Bush and the death penalty in Texas?

"Respectfully,"
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Gideon

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2004, 05:21:29 pm »

JamSync wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 11:39

3D Audio wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 15:48

Quote:

I think the people that voted for bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard...

Hans Mues


I'm not afraid. I have peace in the midst of the world's turmoil.



I agree.

"Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once.
Of all the wonders that I yet have heard.
It seems to me most strange that men should fear;
Seeing that death, a necessary end,
Will come when it will come."

Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"







"All men pay attention to me."  Yes, and I pay attention to my little plate and wash it and wipe it out...Again, do I not pay attention to my donkey? Do I not wash his feet? Do I not curry him? ...
"But I will cut off your head." Well said! I had forgotten that I ought to pay attention to you, as to fever or cholera, and set up an alter to you, just as in Rome there is an alter to the God Fever...
For when the tyrant says to a man, "I will chain your leg," the man who has set a high value on his leg replies, "Nay, have mercy upon me," while the man who has set a high value on his moral purpose replies, "If it seems more profitable to you to do so, chain it."
"Do you not care?"
"No I do not."
"I will show you that I am master."
"How can you be my master when Zeus has set me free. Or do you really think that he was likely to let his own son be made a slave? You are, however, master of my dead body, take it."

 Epictetus on Tyranny (from the Discourses translated by W.A. Oldfather, Loeb Classic Library)




No fear here either (and I live in Manhattan).



http://massgraves.info/
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Fletcher

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2004, 06:43:46 pm »

Brent wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 14:38

If any of you doubt that abortion is "a mother's choice" and not murder, I will be happy to get you into see one in person the next time that you are out in CA.  


Well now that this crap is down in the Saloon where it belongs I'll comment.

First let me mention two things; first, that I'm a registered republican; second, the only reason I oppose 'term limits' is because of the congressman from my district.  His name is Barney Frank, and for the few that are unfamiliar with Barney, he is openly gay, he is also, IMNTLBFHO, the best fucking Congressman in the whole damn House of Representatives.

One of my favorite Barney Frank quotes [and there are many favorite quotes!!] is: "Obviously, life begins at conception and ends at birth".

I have seen abortions, I have watched them, held a hand and offered moral support.  We're going to have to purely agree to disagree on this subject.  

Being a father of two wonderful daughters I could not imagine bringing a child into this world without the complete love and support that is necessary to raise a child.  I would be a whole lot more convinced by the "abortion is murder" thing if the people espousing that doctrine took those soon to be unwanted and neglected children into their lives and cared for them... but this is not the case.

Just as I don't care if a man has sex with another man, nor do I care if a woman has sex with another woman [though I'd wish they'd invite me to watch but that's another story], I'm just tired of seeing kids with no guidance or love in their lives being cast aside by society.

This is my belief, this is not debatable.  I respect your right to your opinion, please respect my right to mine.  If you feel it's "murder" then you feel it's "murder"... if you happen to feel that "gay marriage" is also wrong, I happen to feel that it's none of my damn business what anyone does as long as it doesn't adversely affect my life, my family's life, or a friend's life... unfortunately, as the "right to life" movement has tried to affect some friend's lives, the "anti-gay marriage" thing has also affected some friend's lives.

What can I say... I'm from Massachusetts and in the music buisiness.  I know loose women and gay guys... go figure.
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mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


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Malcolm Chisholm

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2004, 09:29:37 pm »

Fletcher,

Let's pretend that you have two sons instead of daughters. Let's also say they are ages 1 and 3.

There you are mowing the front lawn one day when a moving van pulls up to the house next door to yours, and after that, a white Audi TT convertible.

Two men with matching scarves and matching shades get out and introduce themselves to you,

"Hi I'm Lance and this is my boyfriend Steve."

You say "hello and welcome to the hood".

Later you go inside and your wife asks, "who are they". You respond,

" oh our new gay neighbors lance and Steve. and I happen to feel that it's none of my damn business what anyone does as long as it doesn't adversely affect my life, my family's life, or a friend's life...


A few years go by and same sex marriage is now legal and lance and Steve announce to you that they are getting hitched. you think "still none of my biz" and wish them good luck.

A few weeks later, they pull up in a decked out ford wind-star minivan.You thought they were on their honeymoon when really they went to get their adopted 4 year old boy they renamed "little lance" just about the same age as your boys. It raises an eyeball or two in the hood but,

"it's none of my damn business what anyone does as long as it doesn't adversely affect my life, my family's life, or a friend's life...


Well, eventually Lance and Steve ask if they can arrange a play-date with your boys as well as others in the hood. Then they want to do sleep overs and away trips. it seems Lance and Steve just love having all the boys around.

Fletcher, what will you say then?
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R. Steele

PRobb

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2004, 10:23:06 pm »

Same as I would say to a straight couple. If they are nice people and good parents, no problem.
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PRobb

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2004, 10:55:09 pm »

What if Steve and Lance were model parents? What if they were Steve and Jane? And they drank, and fought and cheated on each other. Would they be better neighbors because they were straight? What matters is who they are not what they are.
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t(h)ik

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2004, 12:02:19 am »

C'mon Fletcher, of course it's debatable....lol

Notice to Fetus...

While I was out being a model citizen and trying to scatch that itch I got knocked up by this guy I met and well now you're here.....I mean fukk, I really can't believe this happened again.  You are already developing with your little arms and legs the doctor said.  But if I let you get any bigger it will get to a point where most people agree that snuffing you would be too close to backing over a two year old with a Buick....

So I am very sorry, I mean really sorry and regretful, yeah, regretful about tomorrow at three o'clock.  Yeah little one you see I just don't have time for you.  And you won't be loved.  It's just that well you will be inconvenient and under the circumstances you will be fukken miserable and probably listen to Death Metal and not do very well in school and wind up a member of the REP forum so.....I'm going in to the Doctors office....and well....I'm gonna have you snuffed.....no hard feelings.....and you'll be happy to know that with the time I will have on my hands I can continue my political activism here in the Northeast.....try not to wince when you see the vacuum nozzle you hideous non-human thing.....in my womb....it's all legal! I'm not doing anything wrong and I don't want to talk about it!  It's my right!  You have no say in the matter so bite down you little mother fukker...IT'S NOT MURDER!!!!!            

I mean mind you this is pure conjecture, I am sure most of the abortions are because of incest and rape.....

And as far as citing literature as examples of courage....we're only talking hypothetical right?   I mean we don't have to do anything do we?


love ya's

TIK


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lucey

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2004, 12:50:43 am »

i dig music wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 21:29



Well, eventually Lance and Steve ask if they can arrange a play-date with your boys as well as others in the hood. Then they want to do sleep overs and away trips. it seems Lance and Steve just love having all the boys around.

Fletcher, what will you say then?


I'm not Fletcher but I'll say this ... You're an evil friggin bigot and I hope you rot in a hell that drives you insane.  You're also a coward, homophobic and un American.

Freedom is hard asshole .. you will have to TEACH your kids tolerance and acceptance.  And teach then that gay humans have existed since the dawn of time.  Get over it.


As for their parenting and influence on your community:  A gay couple is not going to make your or my boys gay, nor are they going to molest them.  They are going to set a frigggin example for love and parenting!  Why? Because EVERYONE is watching them and to adopt they had to jump through hoops your lazy ass would never succeed to do.

Look at spousal abuse, and child abuse, and divorce!  Straight people are messed up PLENTY!  Like TAKE A NUMBER!  

Want to fix marriage? ... get the world's men neutered or make divorce illegal.



Your ignorance and fear is ruining this country.  Damn!




As for the church ... START PAYING TAXES!  Larry Flint was right 30 years ago when he wrote of this in Hustler.  A visionary ... he knew men wanted to look at pussy long before the internets figgured it out.

And if you so-called Christians "respect life" then stop killing prisoners in Texas (like 153 of them ... especially when the Pope calls) and stop killing Iraqi civilians by the 10s of thousands.  

Jesus H Christ, save us from your zealous followers.
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PRobb

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2004, 12:58:17 am »

lucey wrote on Tue, 09 November 2004 00:50

i dig music wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 21:29



Well, eventually Lance and Steve ask if they can arrange a play-date with your boys as well as others in the hood. Then they want to do sleep overs and away trips. it seems Lance and Steve just love having all the boys around.

Fletcher, what will you say then?


I'm not Fletcher but I'll say this ... You're an evil friggin bigot and I hope you rot in a hell that drives you insane.  You're also a coward, homophobic and un American.

Freedom is hard asshole .. you will have to TEACH your kids tolerance and acceptance.  And teach then that gay humans have existed since the dawn of time.  Get over it.


As for their parenting and influence on your community:  A gay couple is not going to make your or my boys gay, nor are they going to molest them.  They are going to set a frigggin example for love and parenting!  Why? Because EVERYONE is watching them and to adopt they had to jump through hoops your lazy ass would never succeed to do.

Look at spousal abuse, and child abuse, and divorce!  Straight people are messed up PLENTY!  Like TAKE A NUMBER!  

Want to fix marriage? ... get the world's men neutered or make divorce illegal.



Your ignorance and fear is ruining this country.  Damn!




As for the church ... START PAYING TAXES!  Larry Flint was right 30 years ago when he wrote of this in Hustler.  A visionary ... he knew men want to look at pussy long before the internets figgured it out.

And if you so-called Christians "respect life" then stop killing prisoners in Texas (like 153 of them, especially when the Pope calls) and Iraqi civilians by the 10s of thousands.  Jesus H Christ.



Tell it like it is, Brian!
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t(h)ik

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2004, 07:21:25 am »

I hope you rot in hell?

LMAO

Feel the love....

Don't hate IDIGMUSIC because he can't put it all together man...he is not after all perfect like you and I...

"Freedom is hard asshole"  or speaking of homosexuality you could also say freedom makes me hard for assholes....

Anyway that is probably bigotry and we shouldn't even connect the dots between the members of any given parade and what happens when...boom boom out go the lights!!!!

What the hell are all the translators doing in Iraq....what does Sean Penn think?  I'm so confused, I wish I had Lance's courage to face the truth...

OK just reacting to the frothing condemnation of my fellow REP members...

Affectionately, your perfect friend in the land of Oden.....Odin?

TIK
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Fletcher

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2004, 08:14:52 am »

Wow... that was a drag... wrote a really cool piece on a couple of topics only to discover that I wasn't logged in and lost it... uhhh, the computer ate my homework.

Lemme try and run off where the other [much better written] post kinda went.

Lance and Steve don't bother me in the slightest.  A sexual predator is a sexual predator no matter if it's some Gay guy down the street, some nice suburban "married with children/Johnny Corporate, Audi driving mook", or a priest.  

From what I've seen on the news, there is far more danger of predatory activity by the clergy than from an openly Gay couple... but ya know what, I'm open to giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason to think otherwise [not necessarily respect, but at very least the benefit of the doubt].

In my life, I've had more contact with guys like Lance and Steve so they don't scare me anywhere near as much as say a priest.  My kids have had way more contact with Gay people than religious people, but that's just the way it goes when your dad works in the music business in the Northeast.  For that matter, my kids have seen more junkies than religious people and you can believe that I sure as hell ain't gonna advocate that they get fucked up on drugs... but yeah, they've seen it.

The whole abortion thing... whew, that's been debated by so many people for so long that we're just not going to settle anything here.  All I can say is that I firmly support a woman's right to choose what happens to her life and her body.  I don't think abortion is right, I would never encourage it, I have had friends who've gone through it and have regretted the decision for the rest of their life... but who's to say that their life, or the kid's life would have been "better" had they gone through with the pregnancy.

Obviously, the best position is not be put in that postion, which is what I try to teach my daughters... but ya know what, the final decision, should it happen to arise, will be their decision.  I sincerely hope upon hope that the situation never arises in my family.  I sincerely hope upon hope that if it should arise in my family that my kid's feel the sense of love and support to come and try to work it out with me rather than hiding it from their parents.

All I can try to do is teach them how to be safe [and break their balls to do their homework... and other "responsibility" kind of shit]... but it's not my life, it's theirs.  Should they turn out to be Gay, pregnant, or dopers, they're gonna get all the love and support I can possibly put together... what happens outside of my immediate family, in my opinion, is none of my fucking business.

To that matter, obviously some disagree, which is certainly their right.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

t(h)ik

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2004, 08:57:51 am »

Well said, couldn't agree more....

Personal responsiblility, acceptance, freedom and concern.....

And all done with humor and no bullshit....

what a concept....

I think we can agree to disagree, I really don't think if we were all in one room we would be so eager to call each other assholes....on the other hand....(grin)

That whole choice of leaving a three year old with a priest or an open bugerer.....man....of course they are both capable of being noble....but I'll go with a elderly woman every time.....maybe I'm just fukked up.....

I live in a world where just about everyone I meet, I mean in the flesh, cites Michael Moore and then is willing to agree that well maybe 50 percent of what he says is true....most of these Euro types don't grow up under the stigma of being "saved" or living under a system where the spiritual leader saw "a sign" or talked to salamanders....

Most of them don't face the fear of having their asses kicked like ....ever....it's pretty cool yet they have their view of the  world and what I find suprising is how readily the are willing to meet me halfway on this whole George Bush thing....you really can't see it in their press however, or well....on this forum much either....



Your perfect idiot buddy in the hills of supremacy, Odenwald....

TIK
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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2004, 10:41:22 am »

There is more to this then meets the eye.

Even though I agree that what people do behind close doors is their own business and no one else's, it has nothing to do with marriage and everything to do with redefining the family unit and family laws for a group that has a different sexual preference then the vast majority.











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R. Steele

zmix

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2004, 11:05:37 am »

Abortion rates increased dramatically under Bush:



http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2 851283


Please do not confuse the spin with reality.

John Kerry does not support abortion. His own religion forbids it.

Kerry understands that the United States was founded by those who believe in freedom. This includes freedom of religion. Because each of us may choose our own religion, we must be tolerant of others who choose to believe as they do.

He supports choice.

Do please bear in mind that just because something is legal, doesn't mean that it's OK.

Alcohol is a legal substance throughout the US, many religions forbid the consumption of it.
45,000 pedestrians are struck dead by drunk drivers each year.
Laura Bush killed her boyfriend while driving drunk.

We need strong communities to help make the tough moral choices, not the government.



http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/2 851283

" When President Bush took office, the nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4 percent decline during the 1990s. This was a steady decrease averaging 1.7 percent per year. (The data come from Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher Institute's studies.)

Enter George W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the opposite happened."

maarvold

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2004, 11:12:46 am »

My personal bottom line(s) for Democrats & Liberals:

1. "You will catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar".  If your agenda is anything more constructive than venting, you will be more persuasive to many if you abandon your doctrine of hate.  

2. Get over it: your candidate didn't "meet his burden".  Based on a lot of what I've read and heard, it is assumed that anyone who didn't vote for Kerry is in love with GWB.  Totally not true.  There were times (a few) where Kerry appeared 'presidential', but he never convinced me that he had a rudder; he was all over the place.  This was a problem I could not get past.  And--about 2 days before the election--I really wanted to.  But it's about hearts AND minds and he didn't meet his burden.  

3. While we're at it, doesn't 380 tons of EXTREMELY highly explosive material qualify as a "weapon of mass destruction?"  Or am I being too unreasonable?  
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