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Author Topic: Speaking of Jefferson  (Read 14673 times)

3D Audio

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Speaking of Jefferson
« on: November 07, 2004, 09:44:28 pm »

I just read an article in the latest Smithsonian about the election of 1800 and the parallels between then and now are uncanny. I'll see if I can find it online.

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3D Audio

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2004, 09:57:58 pm »

Here's a quote from the beginning of the article.

Jefferson was not alone in believing that the election of 1800 was crucial. On the other side, Federalist Alexander Hamilton, who had been George Washington?s secretary of treasury, believed that it was a contest to save the new nation from "the fangs of Jefferson." Hamilton agreed with a Federalist newspaper essay that argued defeat meant "happiness, constitution and laws [faced] endless and irretrievable ruin." Federalists and Republicans appeared to agree on one thing only: that the victor in 1800 would set America's course for generations to come, perhaps forever.

Only a quarter of a century after the signing of the Declaration of Independence, the first election of the new 19th century was carried out in an era of intensely emotional partisanship among a people deeply divided over the scope of the government's authority. But it was the French Revolution that had imposed a truly hyperbolic quality upon the partisan strife. That revolution, which had begun in 1789 and did not run its course until 1815, deeply divided Americans. Conservatives, horrified by its violence and social leveling, applauded Great Britain's efforts to stop it. The most conservative Americans, largely Federalists, appeared bent on an alliance with London that would restore the ties between America and Britain that had been severed in 1776. Jeffersonian Republicans, on the other hand, insisted that these radical conservatives wanted to turn back the clock to reinstitute much of the British colonial template. (Today's Republican Party traces its origins not to Jefferson and his allies but to the party formed in 1854-1855, which carried Lincoln to the presidency in 1860.)  Afew weeks before Adams' inauguration in 1796, France, engaged in an all-consuming struggle with England for world domination,had decreed that it would not permit America to trade with Great Britain. The French Navy soon swept American ships from the seas, idling port-city workers and plunging the economy toward depression. When Adams sought to negotiate a settlement, Paris spurned his envoys.


The full story is at   http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues04/nov04/ election_1800.html and is a worthy historical perspective.
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punkest

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2004, 10:31:40 am »


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


[...]
Hitler also said it best: "It is good fortune that people do not think."
[...]
Barry




Add to that a people who seem to be giving up on reading. (Newspapers, at least)

George





So we're supposed to have a more collaborative spirit, and be less resentful, and keep in mind that approximately half the country disagrees with us.

In addition, we need to keep all these things in mind, and be all cooperative and everything while we also keep in mind that most of you feel that Bush was elected by "a people" that:

1. are stupid non-intellectuals
2. are un-read
3. are neo-nazi candidates
4. are sheep willing to be led by a neo-nazi
5. all the above
6. all that and worse.

If anybody has resentment, it sounds like you guys are full of it because Kerry lost. Why is it then so hard for you to understand our resentment for all the negative generalized comments here about anyone who does not adhere to your ideas and opinions? I understand the concept of lively disagreement, and think that is one of the greatest things about America. But most of these posts seem like intolerance, and that smacks of other countries in years past.

It seems like I'm hearing quite clearly that there is no way that a person can be a good person, a caring parent, a thinking individual and be a conservative (or more specifically, vote for Bush).



Paul Mills




I think the people that voted for Bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard.  Also not very informed -if you call that un-read- that this crook does all this for himself and his base, as he calls it, meaning his friends at the elite. Unfortunately, all this does not only affect your country, but also the rest of the world. I, as an outsider, am amazed that he won after all he just did.

  Even so, young voters broke records and that is good news.

  You as North-Americans have now a responsibility, and you have to keep close to this government and continue to express the way you feel, by no means now that this megalomaniac is in power again, let it alone to do as he pleases.

May god be with us all...

Hans Mues
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3D Audio

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2004, 10:48:46 am »

Quote:

I think the people that voted for bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard...

Hans Mues


I'm not afraid. I have peace in the midst of the world's turmoil.
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Johnny B

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2004, 11:09:46 am »

Lynn, you may not say that when Bush sews the seeds of the next big crime wave by making people so broke that they feel compelled to take drastic action, and Bush will accomplish this state of affairs thru a series of measures such as cutting back on social programs and increasing his offical policy of exporting as many American jobs overseas as possible.

When I think of Jefferson, I think of someone who had some semblance of patriotism, when I think of Bush, I see nothing but an immoral man, an unethical traitor whose failed policies will only continue to harm the entire world and all of the American middle class.  


YMMV.


 
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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality,
they are not certain; as far as they are certain,
they do not refer to reality."
---Albert Einstein---

I'm also uncertain about everything.

JamSync

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2004, 11:39:59 am »

3D Audio wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 15:48

Quote:

I think the people that voted for bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard...

Hans Mues


I'm not afraid. I have peace in the midst of the world's turmoil.



I agree.

"Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once.
Of all the wonders that I yet have heard.
It seems to me most strange that men should fear;
Seeing that death, a necessary end,
Will come when it will come."

Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"



Nika Aldrich

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2004, 11:41:00 am »

In Poly Sci classes we studied the election of 1800.  It was pretty brutal.  There were others as well - The Lincoln/Douglas debates showed how nasty the election of 1860 was, and there were others in the late 1800s that were pretty bad.

Nika.
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JamSync

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2004, 12:26:54 pm »

Nika Aldrich wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 16:41

In Poly Sci classes we studied the election of 1800.  It was pretty brutal.  There were others as well - The Lincoln/Douglas debates showed how nasty the election of 1860 was, and there were others in the late 1800s that were pretty bad.

Nika.



And the format for the Lincoln/Douglas debates still exists today as a method of teaching young people how to conduct logical discourse in public speaking. Unfortunately, only a small segment of school-age kids participate in the program.

Rader Ranch

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2004, 12:44:28 pm »

the youth vote wasn't what some seem to think, in terms of overall percentage of the population....IOW it's been higher in the past.
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scott...

Nika Aldrich

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2004, 01:00:45 pm »

It was the same this year as in 2000 - 17%.  So it was up overall, but not by more than the rest of the population was up overall.

Nika.
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Fletcher

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2004, 01:25:54 pm »

3D Audio wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 10:48

Quote:

I think the people that voted for bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard...

Hans Mues


I'm not afraid. I have peace in the midst of the world's turmoil.



index.php/fa/363/0/
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

PookyNMR

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2004, 02:08:49 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 11:25

index.php/fa/363/0/


Despite popular belief, Canada is VERY different from the US - even the more 'liberal' states.

Nathan
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Nathan Rousu

plughead

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2004, 02:37:36 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 10:25

3D Audio wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 10:48

Quote:

I think the people that voted for bush are very, very afraid. Afraid of alien attacks, terrorism, AND change. Afraid that some of the hatred that foreign policy has been sewing could be harvested while being in low guard...

Hans Mues


I'm not afraid. I have peace in the midst of the world's turmoil.



index.php/fa/363/0/


We (as Canadians) are going to see some long term suffering from not only the "chimp" in the Whitehouse, but also from our haphazard, and poorly planned agreements within "free-trade". I don't trust GWB's interests, they don't reflect mine, (or IMO, my country at all) nor do I think he represents the general public's agenda either. He is all for money, at whatever cost, and it'll surely take till another catastrophy to then realize the hole we've dug ourselves into. History repeats itself - it seems the US is willing to stand behind GWB - I at least find it humourous that our nation's leader (at the time, Chretien) wouldn't stand behind him, cos I don't think he, or the Canadian public trusted GWB in the least...

PS: Speaking for myself, I take offence to being lumped in with "America" - we are not a US state, and hopefully never will be...

Peace (and I mean peace...)
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Brent Handy

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2004, 02:38:36 pm »

It blows me away that the same people that claim to be enlightened have not bothered to read the first and only text book used in the very first schools here in the US.

I am a republican, I did vote for Bush, but only because of the stance on abortion.  Kerry talks out of his crack.  He says that he has morals, is a Catholic, believes that birth starts at conception, but murder is ok?

If any of you doubt that abortion is "a mother's choice" and not murder, I will be happy to get you into see one in person the next time that you are out in CA.  My brother is a doctor.  We treat animals with better care.  Also, ask yourself why that stupid bastard in CA is being charged for dumping his wife and unborn child into the lake?  Is it only a child and murder if someone else does it?

I am not a freako republican that is afraid of things.  That statement was most uneducated.  That talk is what makes the democrats look like morons, which they all are not.  I am for all of the government that was originally intended...protection from foriegn aggression, promotion of longevity/well being.  Let the people take care of the hurting, not the government.  Look at 911.  We all stepped up and helped regardless of government.  Look at Oklahoma City.  The nation stepped up.  This country is one of opportunity, not guarranteed handouts.   The government has too much control, and too many hands in our pockets, doing too much.  That's what makes me vote republican until wa adopt a three or four party system.

Respectfully
Brent
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Rader Ranch

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Re: Speaking of Jefferson
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2004, 03:41:36 pm »

...that came across pretty freako to me. this was not an abortion thread. better start another one in a better forum for that, unless this is to become the defacto political forum, like Craig Anderton's was before a seperate place was created over at the MP forums...
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scott...

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