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Author Topic: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')  (Read 4894 times)

Wyn Davis

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2004, 04:01:17 pm »

Peter,

Seriously for a moment. What medications do you take? Are they all legitimate pharmaceuticals or are you using some hillbilly stuff?

I'll say one thing, you must be able to type your ass off if you can put in all those long hours AND write those endless SOC posts.

Don't get me wrong. I am NOT attacking you, (though looking back at what I just wrote, it is clear it may read that way). I actually find your posts very helpful. Some days after a long and stimulating period of work, I can't get myself wound down fast enough to get enough sleep for my next days efforts. That is when I come home and look up some of your posts, as I find them very effective sleep aid.  

Please never stop.

God Bless you Peter.
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Wyn Davis
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lucey

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2004, 05:08:04 pm »

Peter  Oxford wrote on Fri, 05 November 2004 12:36



Quote :
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Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

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t(h)ik

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2004, 10:58:49 am »

Darling Peter

I have always known that I was from and about nothing.  It is refreshing and altogether thrilling to have this reaffimed in the  REP forum.  It is not enough that I am rendered useless and unappealling on all technical and artistic matters relating and unrelating to the only love in ny life: music.  But now to see my perceptions and awareness of self shattered is well, nothing short of the begining for me, and by logical extension (or contraction) us!

Thank you so much Peter....I sing well, I am a superstar really, in my remote Teutonic village as most English speaking feriners tend to be and I have developed a cough caused by over practicing and almost choked to death reading your posts....The Dali keeping his spirits up comment almost stopped my heart....

I revel in the countenance and continual blessings I have received since coming to this forum.  I am truly blessed, thank you Peter for every keystroke.  Your prose is a gift to mankind as well as those on distant planets...if they have computers...

Your brother in Christ watching over the Continental hordes...

TIK

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lucey

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2004, 03:02:12 am »

sixtiksix wrote on Sat, 06 November 2004 10:58

Darling Peter

I have always known that I was from and about nothing.  

(edit)

Your brother in Christ watching over the Continental hordes...





oh my ...


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Brian Lucey
Magic Garden Mastering

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PP

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2004, 07:14:54 am »

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t(h)ik

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2004, 08:24:21 am »

Peter,

First off, thank you so much for what I know is your sincere interest in the current spiritual fitness of my soul.  I am in fact lost in this world and alas cannot believe in Jesus as my savior.  But in my search for a meaningful life I have seen much more humility and good will among christians than what people like to portray them as....

It is in fact, sophmorically disingenious to suggest that they are any different than the next swinging richard let alone the bogey man.  

I live in Europe by choice and forgo the cultural advantages of interacting with my countrymen incarcerated at the nearby military facilities.

As an atheist in Europe I enjoy the government not preventing me from drinking on Sunday and other ridiculous regulations however, it is not lost on me that this entire system here is an extension of the Founding Fathers of my homeland and tyranny is kept in check by the threat of more hillbilly's returning with .30 caliber rifles and really bad racial jokes, if shit gets out of hand.  I am a patriot but eschew things like being beaten by the police back home and prefer to languish the remainder of my days in exile surrounded by provencial mountain folk.....

Good Luck

TIK
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lucey

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2004, 11:42:05 am »

Freedom of Religion is also Freedom FROM Religion.

You can have any religion you want in America, yet for State or Federal leaders to make public policy along the lines of one religion is sacreligious to the American idea.

The Founders believed in God, yet they were HELL BENT on making this country's Federal policy a policy of discourse and truth seeking, not one of faith-based values.

I have a pamphlet for GW Bush right in front of me that was passed out in the last week in Ohio ... there are ZERO issues here about Economic Policy, Foreign Policy, the Deficit, etc.

There are 7 issues about Abortion and Gay Marriage and one about the Child Tax Credit.

This pamphlet is the truth about GWBush's power, it comes from a faith-based electorate in the less educated sectors of America.  The cities by and large went by a small margin for Kerry.  The rural counties went overwhelmingly for Bush.

And with this pamphlet and others like it that were created state by state (one of them in the South lying "Kerry will take away your Bibles") its clear that this is the beginnning of the American Theorcracy, no matter what you say to justify it.




As for my "belief in" or my "relationship" with Jesus, or Buddha, or Mohammed it's a private matter, as should yours be.

My vote and my views on public policy, these are public matters.
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Brian Lucey
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JGreenslade

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2004, 02:03:01 pm »

Should religion have a place in politics in a non-medieval society?

Some pros and cons:

Pros:

If the politician’s religion of choice conforms to that of the voting majority, then an outspoken belief is of definite benefit when it comes to polling day…

Cons:

By definition, any religion subscribed to by the political leader is divisive in that it marginalizes those with alternative beliefs.

There is more physical evidence to suggest that little green men from outer space have visited earth than any religious messiah.

Paul Frindle put it eloquently in another thread:
Quote:


The reason that 'faith' and its accompanying simplistic reactions are so compelling and infectious is that they require less effort and consideration in their wholesale adoption



Political policies should be based upon the physical, not meta-physical… I cannot put into words how amoral, and downright backward I find the concept of introducing religious mandates into politics.

If you’ve found God, that’s great, it would be blinkered to deny the good work many clergy put into our society. However, “faith” is just that, and should be kept separate from what we know to exist factually - from an ethical standpoint, exacting the opposite with regards to political decisions would make the perpetrator on a moral par with the Taliban or Ayatollah.

This MPG illustrates the effect of God-fearing UK and US leader’s policies in Iraq:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/audiovideo/apachehit.mpg

“Roger. He’s wounded, hit him” – is that Christian behaviour?

Regards,
Justin
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t(h)ik

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2004, 04:01:24 pm »

With all due respect, your comments on the video are why I have little or no respect for this type of attitude....

The events on the video can be easily traced back to the crew of that helicopter.  I am not sure but I think they are facing charges for violating the Geneva convention and if they are not facing charges they should be.  

But you imply that this is US policy when it clearly is not....

Oddly enough, the US is full of humans and by extension so is the US military and some would look at that tape and cringe and others would say "get some". It is clearly horrifying but I don't see where there is a connection to those with faith or US policy.

Speaking as an Atheist and someone who desperately wants to hear someone say something intelligent on the anti-war side....

Glad to be here...

TIK
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JGreenslade

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2004, 05:02:22 pm »

Quote:


This MPG illustrates the effect of God-fearing UK and US leader’s policies in Iraq



The keyword is “effect”. The above statement did not suggest that the helicopter crew were following direct orders from politicians, you chose to interpret it that way Rolling Eyes

Quote:


But you imply that this is US policy when it clearly is not....



I did not imply the events in the mpg were direct “US policy”; the video portrays the type of horrors that occur (along with 100,000 civilian deaths) when politicians (who are supposedly Christian citizens) create an ill-conceived war. Come to think of it though, who should take responsibility?

Nor was I inferring it was solely US policy, Bliar is as much to blame.


Justin
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t(h)ik

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2004, 05:15:19 pm »

I stand corrected.  You did say effect.  

Nice casualty figure though.  Why not make it a million.

I'll agree with ill-conceived as well.  I am not happy that Bush is the boss.  Or that we, meaning the people of Earth cannot seem to get our shit together, and you seem to have said something intelligent which is why not so oddly enough this is the best place I can imagine to discuss politics.  

So please kindly tell me what the heck the difference is between Normandy, Belgrade, Ivory Coast, Charles Taylor and Iraq.  Besides the fact that the French are always dicking shit up....um...meaning their government....cause French people rock....

Waiting for a clue....

TIK
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JGreenslade

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2004, 06:21:38 pm »

I should add that some reports state the “farmers” in the video may not have been what they appeared (farming at night is unusual) – this is purely conjecture I’ve read though.

Regardless of what they were up to, the mpg is a shocking exemplification of the true horror that war constitutes...

Even though I sometimes wonder if I should move to mainland Europe (as friends have done) due to the current UK climate under Bliar, I can only thank my lucky stars that I wasn't born in Iraq.

Justin
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t(h)ik

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2004, 06:50:03 pm »

Hey Justin,

First of all you should be proud of being a slimey Brit.  Secondly noone on the Continent has any more moral high ground than your great nation.  Thirdly, they weren't fukken farmers in the video.  And, being born in Iraq would be OK as long as you could get the fukk out of there to go to concerts and get some decent beer, they have all the normal booze....and fukked up Britney Spears...

Hey man, demonizing Blair, while a great sport for you Anglos, really has no basis.  He may be a ding dong, I don't follow British politics, but he really did what he thought was right concerning Iraq.  You could look to the Dutch, the Danes, the Italians and the Poles for your continental cues instead of governments that cannot tell right from wrong even on a multiple choice test.  

If you do decide to come here though you would be welcome to stay at my studio and you could walk down to the village and listen to the people who live on the Continent and think the Brits are island monkeys, tell their fukked up Jew jokes and Turk and Paki jokes cause they are just so much better than you or some dumb ass hick from Kentucky.....(the US is eve-ill)

Dude, fight the power, don't buy into the gay propaganda about the Iraq thang(what is the German Army doing in Kuwait)the war is unfortunate but is more right than wrong...keep your world peace views and do what you think is right just don't listen to the bullshit....


Fighting the goood fight on the Continent....

TIK



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Wyn Davis

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2004, 02:33:17 am »

Peter,

The Red Socks are a baseball team from Boston. This year they were trying to break an 86 year curse, and they did. They won the World Series. The story of the curse is too long to describe here. If you are interested, Google "Curse of the Bambino". Since Boston is in Massachusetts, home state of Senator Kerry, I think some people felt the ability of the Red Socks to break the curse might, in some magically cosmic way, link to a Kerry victory and by extention, break the right wing spell over rational thought in this country. It did not help. So much for heretical conjunctions. BTW, in my earlier post SOC stood for "stream of consciousness".

Thank you for asking about my faith. I feel you are asking in the kindest, most generous way. I'll try to answer with that in mind. My faith has so little to do with the Born Again Christian movement of the last 40 years that I hesitate to even call myself a Christian. My faith centers on gratitude, service, humility, compassion, surrender and personal deficiency. I find precious little of any of those in the political and spiritual leaders currently strutting their stuff in my country.

Peter Oxford wrote

The Christian family is unique in that the sole qualification for being a member of it, depends entirely, upon the individual involved being fully aware of his complete failure to be in any way worthy of joining it
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Wyn Davis
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Redondo Beach, California

PP

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Re: Human failings, Gov't, and Religion (was 'client unhappy...')
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2004, 07:24:03 am »

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