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[Fig]

Hey all,

I did a search and came up empty.

This weekend we're pullin' the 24 track headstack off the ol' MCI JH24/16.

Our intentions are to send it off to JRF Magnetics for a relap.

Never done this before, looking for some "watch out for..." - type advice.

First, is JRF the best choice?

Second, how do you package headstacks (anti-static bags?)

How long does the process take?

Anyone ever have a bad experience relapping?

Care to share any good experiences relapping?

The fun part will be that we'll stick the NOS 16-track headstack on while the 24 is out of the office.  Can't wait to track some drums on those fatter tracks!

Looking forward to your comments,

Thom "Fig" Fiegle

[archtop]

I think JRF

is your ONLY choice

[Fig]

Ummmm...  I found four places on a short search of the web.

One happens to be less than an hour from the studio (IEM in Palatine, Illinois).

Another is in the UK.

Of course there is ATR, too.

But I am looking for info from an experienced user of a relap service provider, anybody??

Thom "Fig" Fiegle

[trexrox]

archtop wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 11:09

I think JRF is your ONLY choice

Not that that's a bad thing.  John will treat you right.  He is the best, if not the only place to send it to.  He will be straight up with you about your heads.  I would call him and ask what he recommends as far as packing/shipping...

Quote:

The fun part will be that we'll stick the NOS 16-track headstack on while the 24 is out of the office.  Can't wait to track some drums on those fatter tracks!

you won't even want your 24 track heads back after using these!  

[Greg Youngman]

I asked the same question a few years ago on relapping for my Ampex ATR-102.  Some suggested JRF.  One fellow suggested I call Audio Magnetic Professional Services before calling JRF.  They offered a free estimate (should I decide not to have them relapped) of what need to be done and evaluate thier existing condition.  They did a fabulous job and were very reasonable.  They do MCI.  I'll pass on the same tip I got.  Call them.

http://www.audiomagnetics.com/serv01.htm

Audio Magnetic Professional Services, Inc.
11360 Forutne Circle BLDG E8
West Palm Beach, FL 33414
(561)333-0335  

[Joe Giannone]

When everything's done, I'd be very interested in hearing about your impressions of the 16 vs. 24 track head, and the pre-lapped vs. post-lapped 24 track head.
Joe

[bblackwood]

JRF rules.

[Fig]

Joe Giannone wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 12:28

When everything's done, I'd be very interested in hearing about your impressions of the 16 vs. 24 track head, and the pre-lapped vs. post-lapped 24 track head.

Count on it!

I, too, am interested and will happily share.

Thanks for the comments, y'all.

Fig

[trexrox]

While I think it is good that there is some competition amongst audio professionals, I would recommend JRF for the following 2 reasons:  

1) His workmanship, quality, and expertise is the most respected in the industry for magnetic heads, hands down.  

2) Anyone selling a machine (or buying one) is better off with a head report from JRF (I wouldn't trust or accept a head report from anyone else).

[Paul Frindle]

Will Loftin wrote on Sat, 16 October 2004 14:38

While I think it is good that there is some competition amongst audio professionals, I would recommend JRF for the following 2 reasons:   1) His workmanship, quality, and expertise is the most respected in the industry for magnetic heads, hands down.   2) Anyone selling a machine (or buying one) is better off with a head report from JRF (I wouldn't trust or accept a head report from anyone else).

Years ago I relapped 2" heads myself using a flat glass block first with very fine wet/dry paper to get the profile back, then using car rubbing compound to get the surface smooth and finally very find abrasive polish to restore a pristine surface (although the last stage could be accomplished by running a few reels of gash tape over them on the machine itself).
If you did this very carefully the results were excellent.

[Rick Sutton]

Another thumbs up for JRF. Back when I had a lot of analog machines I tried several different firms for re-lapping and found JRF to be the best.  You can trust them to do it right.

[Tim Gilles]

Over the last 15 years or so I've had quite a few occassions to send various headstocks from a slew of machines to John French for relap.

Never a problem of any sort.

Ever.

Pretty darn good when I consider approximately how many times I've gone thru this process with him.

Best to all.

Rumblefish

[Fletcher]

M-A started out in the used equipment business... needless to say we learned a whole lot about heads, and who is good and who ain't.  The ONLY company we trusted with heads was JRF Magnetic Sciences.  We had experience with them all... after relatively short period of time one company emerged as the "go to" firm.

[Fig]

Joe Giannone wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 12:28

When everything's done, I'd be very interested in hearing about your impressions of the 16 vs. 24 track head, and the pre-lapped vs. post-lapped 24 track head. Joe

Well, as promised, here's my impressions:

First, JRF returned the heads to us in less than a week!

Downside is, we didn't get too much burn time with the 16 track headstack.

Good news is, the huge scrape across tracks 19, 20 and 21 is completely gone.  GONE!!  John said they can still see it under the microscope, but I swear this 24 track headstack looks new.  Best part?  60% life left!  Not bad for a 1974-76 tape machine.  The previous owners must not have relapped them ever.

Upon putting the alignment tape up, I noticed a 0-3 dB change across the whole machine, depending on frequency.  I must admit, though, there seems to be more air on each track, even the ones that sounded the most open prior to the relap.  Low end firmed up, too on some questionable tracks.

So....  certainly worth it, for those that are wondering.

I do wonder myself, though, how often should heads be relapped?  What kind of signs let you know its time?  Is it kind of a 6 years or 60,000 miles kind of thing?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Thom "Fig" Fiegle

[drumsound]

Paul Frindle wrote on Sun, 17 October 2004 17:57

Will Loftin wrote on Sat, 16 October 2004 14:38 While I think it is good that there is some competition amongst audio professionals, I would recommend JRF for the following 2 reasons:   1) His workmanship, quality, and expertise is the most respected in the industry for magnetic heads, hands down.   2) Anyone selling a machine (or buying one) is better off with a head report from JRF (I wouldn't trust or accept a head report from anyone else). Years ago I relapped 2" heads myself using a flat glass block first with very fine wet/dry paper to get the profile back, then using car rubbing compound to get the surface smooth and finally very find abrasive polish to restore a pristine surface (although the last stage could be accomplished by running a few reels of gash tape over them on the machine itself). If you did this very carefully the results were excellent.

WOW!  Do you do your own dentistry too?

[Joe Giannone]

Fig wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 18:32

Joe Giannone wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 12:28 When everything's done, I'd be very interested in hearing about your impressions of the 16 vs. 24 track head, and the pre-lapped vs. post-lapped 24 track head. Joe Well, as promised, here's my impressions: First, JRF returned the heads to us in less than a week! Downside is, we didn't get too much burn time with the 16 track headstack. Good news is, the huge scrape across tracks 19, 20 and 21 is completely gone.  GONE!!  John said they can still see it under the microscope, but I swear this 24 track headstack looks new.  Best part?  60% life left!  Not bad for a 1974-76 tape machine.  The previous owners must not have relapped them ever. Upon putting the alignment tape up, I noticed a 0-3 dB change across the whole machine, depending on frequency.  I must admit, though, there seems to be more air on each track, even the ones that sounded the most open prior to the relap.  Low end firmed up, too on some questionable tracks. So....  certainly worth it, for those that are wondering. I do wonder myself, though, how often should heads be relapped?  What kind of signs let you know its time?  Is it kind of a 6 years or 60,000 miles kind of thing? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks and regards, Thom "Fig" Fiegle

Thanks much for the update, Thom. So for the short time you ran the 16 track heads, did you notice any improvement in audio quality when compared to the 24 track heads, even after the relapping? In an old post I seem to remember Fletcher stating that if heads hadn’t been relapped after 6k hours then they should be, but I’m far from an expert in this area, so hopefully a more experienced analog head can shed some light.
Joe

[Fig]

Joe Giannone wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 23:31

Thanks much for the update, Thom. So for the short time you ran the 16 track heads, did you notice any improvement in audio quality when compared to the 24 track heads, even after the relapping?

I can only say we were NOT thorough enough in our experiments because of the lack of time.  Nobody expected the 24 track headstack to come back as quickly as it did (thanks, John! this is my only "complaint" with the whole process, BTW).

When the 24 came back we put it right on and got on with the projects that had been waiting (we had a hard time finding test subjects, too).

So, maybe when we get that second machine (fingers crossed), we can have a formal A/B comparison between 16 and 24.

Quote:

In an old post I seem to remember Fletcher stating that if heads hadn’t been relapped after 6k hours then they should be, but I’m far from an expert in this area, so hopefully a more experienced analog head can shed some light. Joe

In hours, huh?  I hope Fletcher will chime in to clarify.  Thanks for the post.

On the current hard rock project we are recording this month, everyone in the room senses higher fidelity from the machine.  We are very pleased.

Personal rant:  digital doesn't stand a chance, now!

[/rant]

Fig

[vf14]

When is it time to relap?

The tell tale sign is when you lose highs.
Usually it starts on an edge track and begins to work its way across.

A relap will bring sparkle back to those dull sounding tracks.

It's usually possible to get 2 or 3 laps on the life of the heads.

Whichever place you use.. We always pay the extra to have the heads aligned on the block.

Greg Dwinell
Orange Sound
South Hadley, Ma

[Brian Roth]

I've used John French for maybe 25 years now and am 100% satisfied.  If you send the entire block in, 99% of the time even the azimuth setting will be dead-on when it is returned!

As for packing/shipping....

Take a paper towel and fold/cut it so the "wad" is the same height as the heads and long enough to cover all three head surfaces.  Use masking tape to attach the paper towel to the side of the erase head on the left end and the repro head on the right end.  This is my "homebrew" method of emulating what John does when he preps the heads for return shipping.

Do something similar to the head connectors so they aren't banging into the heads/guides during shipping.

I put the head block into a Ziplock freezer bag and squeeze out excess air.  Select a shipping box that is MUCH larger than the head block so you can use a bunch of padding (like styrofoam "peanuts") within the box.  For a 2" block, I'd use maybe a 12x12x12" box or larger.

I'd call John/et al and let him know the block is coming, AND get a replacement value for insurance.  From my area of the world, Fedex is my preferred shipper, but some folks in other parts of the country have better luck with UPS.  

When tape was THE primary recording method here, and downtime was to be avoided, I'd schedule an appointment with JRF to ensure a 1-day turnaround in their shop.  Hence, I could pull the block off the machine at 5:00 PM on a Monday to pack and ship, and it would be back at the studio by 10:00 AM Wednesday with overnight shipping both ways.  

When you get the block back, be VERY prepared to crank back the HF EQ settings on the recorder since the "freshened" heads will be nice and bright; you've been unwittingly cranking up the HF EQ as the heads have worn down!  It's not uncommon to find a 2 or 3 dB HF improvement after relapping.

Bri

[bobkatz]

Another thing to get that newly lapped (or even a non-relapped set of heads) up and fresh is to get an expert technician to adjust the centering and zenith. Those heads will really last and can sound even fresher if the centering, wrap (penetration) and zenith have been properly adjusted. I find that optical adjustment by JRF is not enough if you are a perfectionist, btw. JRF adjusts the stack optically but without your transport, which can add its own variables.

BK