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Author Topic: philosophy of pres on drums  (Read 3508 times)

NelsonL

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philosophy of pres on drums
« on: October 14, 2004, 02:46:55 PM »

If you're like me, you probably have mic pres of varying quality.

My "A" stuff is being racked right know. I also have an Ampex pre that is pretty nice. Step down from that and I've got some decent pres in a broadcast console from the 70s-- next stop digidesign.

I haven't really used the 002R pres that much but they seem OK in the way that Mackie pres aren't the end of the world if that's what you have to work with. Anyway, I have plenty to choose from before these enter the consideration set.

So anyway, I have been thinking that my best channels should be used on FOK, mono OH, and snare. Because these are the spots where I expect to build the core of my drum sound.

Anybody think the kick drum pre is more important than say OH, or the PZM taped to the floor under the snare?

I mean who can say what will wind up being featured in the final mix. Sometimes that omni in the hallway is crucial.

You see what I'm getting at.








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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2004, 03:20:05 PM »

for me....pre's are a tough nut to crack


i can hear different comps pretty well when i'm mixing and tracking. but i've always had trouble quickly hearing differences in pre's in a tracking session.

i can hear it in a shoot out, or when cutting vocals and i have time to A/B things longer.

but anyway.  i put my best pre's on the over heads.  i typically use the overheads for the main picture of the drum kit so i want that to be as clear, and "quiet" and clean as possible.


that being said, you just need to decide what you think sounds best and go for it.

what ampex pre do you have.  i have a bunch of 440b electronics that just KILL as line amps, i know they make a mic trannie for those as well.


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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2004, 05:06:47 PM »

I have an ampex 601, like this but built into a wooden case:

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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2004, 09:33:03 AM »

if it's anything like the 440 electronics it will do the best on kick drum.

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volthause

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2004, 11:58:48 AM »

Depends on your definition of 'best'. Cleanest? Punchiest? Crunchiest?

I like dirty drums, so I take the nastiest sounding thing I have an throw it on kick and snare. Overheads I like clean (because there's nothing worse than getting nasty overheads to sit right come mix time). For the room, I like grit.

This is a personal thing though, so what's best for me, isn't best for everyone.

I like opto compressors on drums. I don't know why, but the sag, to me, is what gives drums their life.

YMWSV.
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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2004, 02:01:28 PM »

I think that my ampex would qualify as crunchy-- it is a fairly colored sounding tube pre. Gritty is the word that comes to mind.

I didn't get too specific on the other stuff since it's all "sleeper" gear more or less. I don't know how many of y'all will have tried any of this stuff...

Once we start tracking drums I should have:

Quad Eight x 2

Quantum Audio labs 8x4 mixer

Ampex 601 x 1

002r stock x 4

And possibly some other nice stuff if we can borrow from a friend who works at one of the rental houses in LA.

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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2004, 02:18:42 PM »

quad eight is ex-API guys, and from what i've heard (from trust worthy sources that own quad eight gear) it sounds similar to API but a little different in a good way.

i'd use the quad eights for over heads, or snare.

i'd be very tempted to use the ampex for mono overhead (which i'm doing quite a bit of recently) or snare.

haven't heard of quantum audio.

so that's my 2 cents.....or sense, however you might see it.
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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2004, 02:37:31 PM »

I've heard the same thing about the quad eight stuff and the price was right. Should arrive later this month.

Quantum stuff is pretty decent, I like them on drums-- probably kick by default.

I'm definately leaning towards the mono OH thing. I want to get that working with the FOK/Room mic for the main image. I'll build from there-- actually I'd like to skip miking the toms altogether.

I've had good results with the Ampex on mono OH and snare-- so you nailed it there. Snare is nice because noise is less of an issue.
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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2004, 04:24:36 PM »

here is an overhead treatment that i love but use very rarely.

front and back.

instead of left right, or mono, or whatever.

you place a mic as an overhead straight in front of the kick.  get the sound you want.  work the mic as much as you need to get a good picture of the front of the drum kit.

then place another mic (no need for matched pairs in this technique) behind the kit exactly equal to the front mic based off the snare drum. (or whatever "center point" you choose)

mute the front mic while placing the rear mic.  don't move it just get the most matched level you can out of it.

unmute the front mic and pan it hard left, pan the rear mic hard right.  get them phased aligned as much as you want to, or need to.

a very cool image of the kit.

i'll often hard pan them, or soft pan them....and i often times place them rather high compared to my typical mic'ing techniques that are all relatively low in regards to ceiling height.

i rarely raise a mic above maybe 2' above the cymbal line.

and recently i haven't even put a mic above the cymbal line, everything is below.

but for this front/back thing you need to break the cymbal line and get a good "above" picture as i've found out.

give it a shot.
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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2004, 04:34:51 PM »

So each mic diaphragm is (roughly)paralell to the plane of the kick drum heads? Or are they perpendicular in a more traditional OH manner?
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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2004, 05:35:23 PM »

whatever sounds best.

angled, straight up, straight down...you gotta try it out and see if it works for you and if you even like it.
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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2004, 05:46:05 PM »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 14:35

whatever sounds best.



Makes sense!
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bloodstone

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2004, 03:01:59 PM »

I have four stellar pres, and tend to use those on kick snare & stereo overheads.  I rarely close mic toms.  If I only had two channels, it would be hard for me to decide between OHs & kick & snare.  
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NelsonL

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2004, 04:24:56 PM »

I'm not familiar with stellar.

Are those tube or solid state?
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j.hall

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2004, 04:28:27 PM »

nope.....just stellar.  it's out of this world technology.
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craig boychuk

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Re: philosophy of pres on drums
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2004, 09:32:03 PM »

When I'm choosing a mic pre to use, the thing I usually consider first is transient response...especially with drums.

For instance, I do a lot of work at a studio that has a Neotek mkII
and a Neve sidecar...I find that the Neotek is a little crisper than the Neve, so if anything is sounding overly harsh or has too much attack, I'll use the Neve...especially on toms, I find that the Neve just mellows everything out nicely.

Conversley, if stuff is a little muddy I'll swap out to the Neotek.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that your choice of pre will probably change depending on the sound you're going for and what kind of source you have to work with. I can't say that I ever have a standard method for choosing pres...it totally depends on the situation.


J, that front and back technique sounds like fun! I will try it when I have a chance...

-craig
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